modnar Posted November 15, 2015 Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 When I joined BTC in Feb 2012, I did not even know there was a public forum.What convinced me to join BTC? A couple of you tube videos of Ellis explaining some basics about NOR, but the most important fact was his video explaining clumping in BJ. Then I knew why I was losing, and I quit playing that game. At the time I paid $600 for NOR membership, 4D was under development at an entry fee of $5000. After a while it was abandoned and was available for free in NOR forum.At that time, I was reading the old posts and noticed that this had happened several times before with other systems.I had been focused mostly on NOR and I was not able to beat the kitchen table consistenly. My hitting rate was a little over 50% sometimes and 40 to 45 % , so no matter what betting prog I tried I could not get CONSISTENCY winings. I also recall that the most succesful players had tweaked somehow what was teached here.Then arrived the MDB tread, first free, then priced $150 for a week or so,after that the price skyrocked to $1200.( Yes, I had a discount bonus for the money I paid before)Being a skeptical guy I decided to wait.Don't get me wrong, Im not regreting joinig BTC, it saved me from losing money.Now Kevin had released 5D, and he did it for free.What I am going to do? I will give my best to get success on 4D, IF I am able to do it, then and only then I will join the MDB+, to get the triggers for 5D.Sounds fair to me,because maybe I am not smart enough to make it work. If that is the case, I will just quit gambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 15, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 15, 2015 Sounds pretty fair to me modnar.Maybe the 5D manual was needed to really give this forum a kick and give members a way to put together NOR and MDB+ and find a way to win consistentlyComing from a gut like kachatz who has proven its a winner day in and day out people should have confidence.The other thing too is the way he has written it is very good and it becomes very mechanical.If 3 of 4 trigger point one way then play it - if not then don'tIf MDB+ bets follow 4D then bet - if not then don't.The beauty is to really understand the method you have to be a member of both forums so he hasn't really given the public too much for free.Also you don't have to be a MDB+ member to make 4D work - you just get more high % bets than 4D if you know 5Dmodnar I think you are a smart guy and I think you can make this work. It would really be a shame if you couldn't and you are going to quit this game.I'm sure kevin will help you to get it to work. I'm sure if you email him he would help you with any things you don't understandModnar I think maybe because of where you are from its not the greatest place for fair gaming and this may have clouded your opinions on what is possible.I run a freight business and I avoid South America like the plague.It is blatantly corrupt and if you send there you will pay over 100% tax + a heap of fixed chargesMinimum charges at the ports are 1 month mandatory storage whether it be 1 container or a small boxSo I totally understand your positionI'm not sure how to get around it as the casinos there might be just as corrupt but surely you can get onlineBelieve me over here in Australia and by the sound USA gaming is very popular and you can get fair games that are 50/50 minus commissionI also found online to be fair too and much more convenient.Don't lose faith yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Kevin's work in 5D is awesome. It is crystal clear and easy to understand. Before 5D he was playing 4D and he made it work too.About my country, I know it sucks in many ways,but is the place were I am going to play most of the time.I did not lose faith, but beating a casino is just business to me, as any other venture I tried, if I do not make a profit of it, I just quit.I am 62 years old and already retired. As I said I will give my best try before I quit.My target is beat 7 out of 10 shoes, with a stop loss of -8 and a stop win of 10units. That is 46 units every 10 shoes, as average of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 16, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Didn't say it sucked. Would love to go there and visit but maybe not the best place for fair gaming.Keep us informed how you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users apgns Posted November 16, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hello there,I have been playing NOR for 10 days with good results for a rookie so far (+50 units) but its hard to apply because in a shoe there a lot changes to system you should be playing its kind of exhausting.I do believe NOR makes money but i think i need something more clear.I got also the 5D pdf kind of loved the approached i have to admit it seems extremely professional in my eyes to watch at for indicators to make a bet.So now i am thinking of getting into MDB but here is the question again.I am seeing regular cards with too many system changes and i cant get in untill the reveals itself that is my approach if it cant convince i dont dive in.Would MDB or 5D could be applied to this kind of random situation or is for pre-shuffled situations??Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 16, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 That was my beef with NOR as well. It seems that the shoes change on a dime. But the shoes changing falls right into the hands of MDB. I don't know what the prices are to join here now, but I can say this. I have made a lot of $$ because of this site. And ironically it has been because of things I have noticed and adapted to. If you are just going to take things at face value on this site you are doing yourself a disservice. Take whatever you get from this site and make it your own. I truly believe we are a team here. This is the perfect place to have any ideas you have vetted. I have brought to this forum ideas that I feels are a great addition (SSMDB) but I also brought some ideas that were a swing and a miss. I would rather find out an idea sucked on here than at the casino (Much Cheaper). "Swing your own swing"Arnold PalmerHello there,I have been playing NOR for 10 days with good results for a rookie so far (+50 units) but its hard to apply because in a shoe there a lot changes to system you should be playing its kind of exhausting.I do believe NOR makes money but i think i need something more clear.I got also the 5D pdf kind of loved the approached i have to admit it seems extremely professional in my eyes to watch at for indicators to make a bet.So now i am thinking of getting into MDB but here is the question again.I am seeing regular cards with too many system changes and i cant get in untill the reveals itself that is my approach if it cant convince i dont dive in.Would MDB or 5D could be applied to this kind of random situation or is for pre-shuffled situations??Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntrl9 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Apagonis-I think MDB+ would be the way to play this type of shoe. MDB+ does well with a short term bias. The short term bias is indicative of a shoe that is constantly changing. I am seeing these types of shoes as most all players are. These days it is rare to see a shoe that has a consistent bias from start to finish. Ntrl9Hello there,I have been playing NOR for 10 days with good results for a rookie so far (+50 units) but its hard to apply because in a shoe there a lot changes to system you should be playing its kind of exhausting.I do believe NOR makes money but i think i need something more clear.I got also the 5D pdf kind of loved the approached i have to admit it seems extremely professional in my eyes to watch at for indicators to make a bet.So now i am thinking of getting into MDB but here is the question again.I am seeing regular cards with too many system changes and i cant get in untill the reveals itself that is my approach if it cant convince i dont dive in.Would MDB or 5D could be applied to this kind of random situation or is for pre-shuffled situations??Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users apgns Posted November 16, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Ntrl9 thanks for the response,Does MDB loses on shoes that have long term bias? cause if it isn't it maybe the easiest to apply in all kind of circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntrl9 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 MDB can and will lose a progression to a heavily biased shoe. There are ways to navigate around loses by delaying certain triggers. That being said a heavy bias can win a progression it all depends on how the cards fall. Ntrl9 thanks for the response,Does MDB loses on shoes that have long term bias? cause if it isn't it maybe the easiest to apply in all kind of circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted November 20, 2015 Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 When I joined BTC in Feb 2012, I did not even know there was a public forum.What convinced me to join BTC? A couple of you tube videos of Ellis explaining some basics about NOR, but the most important fact was his video explaining clumping in BJ. Then I knew why I was losing, and I quit playing that game. At the time I paid $600 for NOR membership, 4D was under development at an entry fee of $5000. After a while it was abandoned and was available for free in NOR forum.At that time, I was reading the old posts and noticed that this had happened several times before with other systems.I had been focused mostly on NOR and I was not able to beat the kitchen table consistenly. My hitting rate was a little over 50% sometimes and 40 to 45 % , so no matter what betting prog I tried I could not get CONSISTENCY winings. I also recall that the most succesful players had tweaked somehow what was teached here.Then arrived the MDB tread, first free, then priced $150 for a week or so,after that the price skyrocked to $1200.( Yes, I had a discount bonus for the money I paid before)Being a skeptical guy I decided to wait.Don't get me wrong, Im not regreting joinig BTC, it saved me from losing money.Now Kevin had released 5D, and he did it for free.What I am going to do? I will give my best to get success on 4D, IF I am able to do it, then and only then I will join the MDB+, to get the triggers for 5D.Sounds fair to me,because maybe I am not smart enough to make it work. If that is the case, I will just quit gambling.Hey, ModNot here to sell anything...MDB is based on a simple principle.Baccarat is a 50/50 game .. All the math is discussed in countless books, other forums, baccarat websites, etc.The concept is simple...If something that will eventually make the " math come true" hasn't happened in a while, it is bound to happen soon.50/50. Regression to the mean.That said, you should also read up on a concept called "GAMBLER's FALLACY"Then make your decision to learn about MDB.Or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 KevinI know the gamblers fallacy, do you Know how long could take to roll all 37 numbers at roulette? 284. That is because of the Variance, so you never know when the bias is ending.A long time ago I read a report. It mentioned that even if the casinos removed the Zero/zeros making the game really Fair, most people would still losing, why? Because they bet against the Bias. I am not saying I would never join MDB+, For now I am focused on the 4D part of your outstanding manual. I MUST say it look very promising (for the first time in 3 years I get consistency). Because of the poor Bacc conditions here, I will try it on roulette.When I have some results I will open a tread explaining how I am doing. aHey, ModNot here to sell anything...MDB is based on a simple principle.Baccarat is a 50/50 game .. All the math is discussed in countless books, other forums, baccarat websites, etc.The concept is simple...If something that will eventually make the " math come true" hasn't happened in a while, it is bound to happen soon.50/50. Regression to the mean.That said, you should also read up on a concept called "GAMBLER's FALLACY"Then make your decision to learn about MDB.Or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 21, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 modnar you are getting me excited talking about rouletteYes the standard deviation can be huge if you bet straight up which is why it is for skilled payers onlyIf in fact there are any players who can win long term playing straight upI play red / black with all BTC concepts and it works.Sleeping numbers can happen for along timeI believe the only way you can get an edge playing straight up is sector prediction.Have you looked at raindrop method?JSWF - John Solitude Wheel Frequency - google it - he gives it away for free - it worksMDB+ is based on the same theory As kachatz says regression to the mean or all variance will even out over timeRaindrops falling will eventually wet the whole ground but there may be areas that stay dry for a long time as the fall of the raindrops are random But the fact is when it keeps raining the whole ground will eventually be wet.I believe if somebody focused on just MDB+ and really perfected it they would make their million dollars.way2fast proved it and NTR sounds like he is on his wayWhy haven't I done it yet? I don't know I'm still asking myself that question.Sometimes a winning system is right in front of us but we just aren't ready for it or don't want to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted November 21, 2015 Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 KevinI know the gamblers fallacy, do you Know how long could take to roll all 37 numbers at roulette? 284. That is because of the Variance, so you never know when the bias is ending.A long time ago I read a report. It mentioned that even if the casinos removed the Zero/zeros making the game really Fair, most people would still losing, why? Because they bet against the Bias. I am not saying I would never join MDB+, For now I am focused on the 4D part of your outstanding manual. I MUST say it look very promising (for the first time in 3 years I get consistency). Because of the poor Bacc conditions here, I will try it on roulette.When I have some results I will open a tread explaining how I am doing. aAm always intrigued when I read some of the roulette threads...so much info, so little time...Almost every casino has more roulette tables than BAC tables...hmmmn....must be a lot more players!Good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I Think roulette is so unpopular in USA because of the double zero. A house edge over 5% is very hard to beat.In Argentina roulette is is by far the most popular table game Plenty of single Zero tables. MY practice in 4D (for now) is based on roulette, because in every casino you can always find a table open. Here we play standing, no seats. And you can jump from table to table playing the outside bets not nedding to change your chips (red green or Black are good for all tables). And you have toteboards in most tables. As I learned here you should adapt the way you play to the place you play most of the time.I promise, when I am ready I will open a tread expaining how I use your system .... I am still in the kitchen stage pratice, to get this engraved in my brain to be able to use it in the casino enviroment.Am always intrigued when I read some of the roulette threads...so much info, so little time...Almost every casino has more roulette tables than BAC tables...hmmmn....must be a lot more players!Good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 22, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Modnar - Very similar here.Technically Australia should all be European Wheel layout which they are except my casino has put a double zero beside the single zero on the low limit tables.We have a rapid sit down game with about 20 terminals and an automated airball controlled wheel but many live tables - during busy times probably 25+ tables all open at once.Roulette is the most popular game - even with the double zero people don't care! - they just keep playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted November 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 If you have both roulettes , pick single zero. Here playing the outside is 10 times the minimum bet for the inside numbers.Let say the single zero R/B H/L O/E is too expensive for your bankroll you can lower the risk 2 ways: Make your unit half the minimum table start betting 2 units or go and play inside playing H/L with 3 min chips to cover for instance the low side, 1 chip on 1-6 1 chip on 7-12 and 1 chip on 13-18. This way you are betting 33.3% you need to cover the same bet playing the outside.Personally I refuse to play on double zero roulette. You must consider that the house edge is almost equal to bet the field on craps. Have you ever seen anybody wining consistenly betting only on the field? Modnar - Very similar here.Technically Australia should all be European Wheel layout which they are except my casino has put a double zero beside the single zero on the low limit tables.We have a rapid sit down game with about 20 terminals and an automated airball controlled wheel but many live tables - during busy times probably 25+ tables all open at once.Roulette is the most popular game - even with the double zero people don't care! - they just keep playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 23, 2015 Users Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi modnar. I never play double zero. I also refuse to play that. Here it is only double the inside bets for outside bets making it viable. I will post some info on the roulette forum about some roulette strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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