kachatz1

Would I be "oversimplifying" (?), if I said I think this is E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. what I was talking about? What many ( not all!) of the long term members of the forum have been keeping to themselves about? What those who buy-into/ pay for NOR ...whether through membership, or their experience at the table/ online ...betting real $$, are looking for? Ellis, they are looking for YOU! Sure, cavemen had to find their own wing-men Ceasar had Marc Antony Abbott would have been just a joke, without Costello Dean Martin without Jerry Lewis? And does anybody really believe Johnny Carson would have become an American TV icon without Ed McMahon? But people are paying to see you! Paying to have you critique/ analyze their shoes! Sure, you need Keith to maintain the website, run the social media ( or hire a company like socialmedia1st to do it), create UTube videos and generally be your right-hand wing-man And Stephen is doing a great job putting manuals together, running seminars, etc You seem to be on the right track in all these areas....and hopefully they make the business $$, just like any business relies on a hierarchy of talented people to make sure a business earns a profit... But people go to church to see the priest. They go to Temple to hear directly from the Rabbi... They go to concerts to hear the headliner, not the intro band... And if the news is really big, they want assurances from the Prime Minister/The President... So if NOR is truly the best ever, first-in-class baccarat system....and even if the casinos conspire to make things like MDB and U2hi a necessary part of the arsenal, I think your " main constituency" ( NOR players) would like to hear from the King more often... So thanks for looking at that shoe! Like I said, I left it at hand 34, but that was because I had a ' certain someone" trying to pull me away from the table and to dinner... ( no worries...I snuck back to the table during a " restroom break" and recorded the rest of it that had transpired in my absence.....) Should have stayed! Dinner would have tasted much better!

Hey, All Played a shoe at Golden Nugget Vegas tonight.. Like Chris Isaac says, DON'T FALL IN LOVE with this one, because it was pretty much the goose that laid the golden egg...I got out at hand 34...recorded the rest until I got bored B 1231231241232231231111123312311273 4D rocked. U2hi? MDB+ So many systems. So little time ( between hands) Hoping Ellis can put this all in one...

Thank Reubel for the sports bets, especially MLB, where he excels... And if Ms. Lovato gets your motor running, every other song play HereIGoAgain by WhiteSnake...( it's like HereWeGoAgain..., without the dress) And If you ever think Dan Fogelberg , or whomever, might wake up Our very own LeaderOfThe Band, ( to what we all want....NOR 2), I'll do whatever I can to help!!

The point I am making is simple. Ellis has 1000's of " followers" playing NOR+ Some of them paid their $dues, likely many more did not. But, like it or not, it simply IS THE BEST way to: Identify, Analyze, and Attack a baccarat shoe. And win most of the time. It tells us what to do with lots of opposites (s40) It tells us how to handle the runs (F)...and we all get the runs.... It tells us how to navigate a 'neutral' shoe ( OTBL) It even includes some ways to handle adversity, and prosperity ( the modes, the betting progressions) Sure,we can change our stripes a bit. We can re-jigger s40 to be BaS40 We can add TBL analysis/ monitoring to the mix ( it is not just the other side of OTBL...) And we can " look back" at 3 plays ago, or 5 plays, or even 10 plays to help us decide what to do next ( OO/TT) We can talk about making $30,000 in 30 days ( hey, we play this game enough, we all start believing we can..) Or the 5 unit road to being a millionaire... And S4D? Well, there is room for that, too... I just hope when we are all through that we remember that NOR, even with projected enhancements, and some much welcomed " maintenance" is still who we are. Every business looks out to the next quarter, the next year, the next "period of time" to project how

Seems almost impossible. Some might say irresponsible. Or HEE HAW, Where, oh where are You tonight? ( look up the song!!!!...fill in the blanks..it will be obvious) We are, many of us, having a " hard time" breaking away from NOR. Not sure why he abandoned it in the first place. Not sure why Stephen is readying to deliver the " sermon-on-the mount" ( about NOR) ...) the sermon..you can...look. it. Up. Unless Ellis was ready , unless he was back, and ready to take MDB+++++ , 2 ( or is it 3?) HI, and put Baccarat Humpty Dumpty back together again Plain and simple...it's a HardHabit2Break. ( Chicago) Just imagine ( John Lennon) we could put all these systems, and betting progressions...up, down, sideways ...into one, with NOR as the backbone. listen to the song...you will ' get it', and why it is about baccarat, as much as.... Pandora's box, if you get my drift. Or maybe "THE HolyGrail", without the T-Shirt... But can he? ( YES, he can) And will he? ( hmmmmmmn...) Does he even want to? ( the $64 question...) And if he doesn't, then we have to.

Johnny Don't know...was waiting until things settled down/ all rules completely " finalized" before considering joining... Kevin

Agree, BoxTop It's time to " tweak NOR" The Best System Foundation, ever. And who better than Dr. E. Himself to do it?

Good to see some conversation using words like " toolbox" Because sometimes just a hammer ( U2Hi) won't do, a screwdriver can't keep you from being screwed ( MDB+), and even the the best crescent wrench ever invented ( NOR) leaves you perplexed and dealing with smaller nuts.... Plain and simple, sometimes you just need a little WD-40 to get you through the shoe... Because like they used to say in Wickes' home improvement/ hardware store ads: "WE GOT THE MESSAGE, MR. SIGOLOFF!" (So if I ever mention again about what happens when there is no more Ellis, now you'll know what I'm talking about...) At least, in a toolbox-sort-of-way...

Hey, its only20 shoes... Right? Well look at the relationship of 1 events-IAR's to 2 events-@IAR, over 20 shoes... And 2's -to -3's Do you know the math of "normal distribution" for same? Its in the forum... Do you know what SAP is? It's in the forum... Do you understand the O/R relationship, and how to play accordingly? Its in the forum... Do you understand OTBL/TBL degree of normalcy? And what to do when it gets out of whack? Its in the forum... In summary, you need to know all of this and more...not to win a few shoes...not to " get lucky"... Its your money...you have access to arguably the greatest teacher of Baccarat ever...or is it all a hoax? You can read, right? You have access to the wonders of the internet to review/understand more information on the topic published in the last 10 years than published in 300 years cumulatively before that... (problem is, outside of this forum, most of it is garbage...) The road to riches is paved with a whole bunch of potholes, thorns and obstacles... And casinos who are out to get your $$ But if you are going to play...if you are going to succeed...if you have what the .01% of long-term winners achieve... Like Jordan Spieth appears to have, at least for now, as relates to golf...will he be the next Tiger?? Then keep reading ,keep on studying, and KNOW YOU ARE INTHE BEST POSSIBLE PLACE ON THE PLANET TO ACHIEVE LONG TERM BACCARAT WININGS... (just be prepared...it ain't easy...) But it can, and is, being done... BUT, IT IS UP TO YOU.... This is like the IRONMAN TRIATHLON, recognized all over the world as bringing out only the best-of-the-best...this is not your local walkathon, not a 5k race, not your local bike for ( whatever, insert here) event... I wish you all the best... Kevin ( p.s. I used to be one of the owners of a company that sponsored the Ironman Triathlon brand...attended the annual culminating event in Hawaii 3 times... You start thinking like those athletes...you start practicing like that....you treat Baccarat like you will become one of those .01%'ers who can compete....and you will be successful)

Well, well...thinking Brad finally hit the nail on the proverbial head. NOR and MDB BOTH look for " biases"...it's just they look for different kinds. But COMBINED, they can be very useful. So yeah, I'm still playing my version of 4D, which helps to markedly increases/opens -my-mind to see/ anticipate inflexion points ( aka changes) in a shoe's direction, but here are a bunch of shoe played last 30 days in Vegas , so see if they help you decide if MDB is your kind of town, or just Frank Sinatra's... Notes: Not all shoes played to completion No ties recorded I do not keep columns of 20, so play indicated below is from start to finish 1) B11172115214311121413 Red Rock 2) B23332111221244111221211112211122111 Orleans 3) P 122121111111124211332121241313 El Cortez 4) P2234421212222411132131112151212121222 Green Valley Ranch 5) B1111119412143122 Gold Coast 6) B111123122115121123266221211121212111421211 Red Rock 7) P111211113332322211111111112211213131112223112111 M Resort 8) B4212231112512123152314 SLS 9) B2214282141572121111411212 Red Rock 10) P1111154211113111121111252132231131 RIO 11) P11231331112512311111332212431422 Gold Coast 12) P1111823233213314351211123232122 SunCoast 13) P52121113111115211212 MGM 14) B143111222411122412712122142214331 Palms 15) P153121345114211131311113252221 Ceasar's Palace 16) B32321131412152151121 Golden Nugget 17) P21111123422231221321111211132314211 Red Rock 18) P4221518213231461112162261112 NewYorkNewYork 19) P2112132114122213112182 Paris 20) P2212711482221211212112141533511 Gold Coast There you have it...Virtually all per shuffled cards...just not sure about the MGM these days... Played diff days of week, diff times of day, diff playing partners, some tables full, some just me and the dealer If this can help you draw inferences about/categorize VEGAS SHOES, great! But 20 is a small sample...hardly Zumma... But one thing I do know, is you will be a far more complete player if you are armed with several systems, and several Betting progressions than if you just have one...especially you live in a place has a lot of tables, or a lot of casinos... Or even if you live in a place just has one table, because 1 is the loneliest number that you'll ever do...two can be as bad as one...and it shouldn't tale 3 Dogs or all night to figure it out ( or you'll be broke!) Good Luck to all... Kevin

One nice thing about BAC is you don't have to play every hand...in fact, many players " sit out" 5,10 or even more between hands they actually bet on... Also, with smaller bankrolls, many casinos will let you bet " both sides" of the Player/ Banker...Let's say the table minimum is $ 25, but you want to make a $10 wager on Banker...just bet , say $35 on B, and $25 on P...your net bet is $10 on B...( and YES, I understand all the commission implications of doing this...) Another strategy is many, many casinos will still let you " add" a smaller amount than table minimum bet to an accommodating player's bet...( say she bets $50.00 and you add $10 " on top of her bet"....)a win, and you pay your commission separately...( if any) Another way is table minimums @ some casinos are only $10-$15, but this is getting harder-and-harder to find in Bac Finally, there is always the online Casino route...but MakeSure you fully understand The Good, The Bad and The Ugly as relates to same for US players, and whatever you do, DoNot accept any " bonuses"! But most of all, don't join anything until you are ready to immediately begin to study/practice what you learn many, many times...many shoes...B4 you try " the system" at Casino Speed...with real money ( some players even like to practice on line, but being in a real bricks and mortar casino you'll be confronted with far more distractions...) Good Luck!

No Luck Druck- This is why you need to join! Likely will make your money back in just a few sessions... Even more important, but rarely mentioned, is the money you will SAVE BY NOT LOSING by eliminating " avoidable mistakes" once you learn the systems... Understand about being an hour away from Casinos, but many, many of our members are much farther even...in fact, I spent 2007-2013 living in FL and having nearest casinos 4 hour drive away... Good luck and hope you see clear to join as soon as you are able... Nice Casino that RED ROCK, huh? It's the nicest " suburban casino" in the Vegas area, and rivals many of the strip casinos... Next time you are in town give me a call and I'll walk over to The RR and meet you there ( or I'll drive down to the Golden Nugget!) Kevin 850-687-3128

Sounds like a job to me. Your Jedi boss ( a.ka.a the Casino Meister) will likely ask you to make sure you arrive with Starbuxx ($$) in hand ( the monetary equivalent of coffee) Enough Starbuxx? You and Dr. Martingale can get along just fine at $10k per week...for a long while, depending on the Buxx.... Just make sure you also enjoy a good cup of Folgers. Good 'til the last drop. Because that's when those casino Jedi hosts will cut you loose....

Brad You make a good point about PPP (Probability of Potential Piracy) Or is it BBB? ( Beware the Banker Boogeyman ) Couldn't resist...you'd think by now I'd just stop... Your flow chart idea is an excellent one...got me to thinking further on the topic... I am not a programmer, an artist or the" go-to" person for whatever replaced PowerPoint presentations.... But I do know this: We have before us a once-in-a -generation opportunity to put what is likely the best-in-class and most workable ideas regarding the game into a " single place", authored by likely the single most sincere and devoted master of the game. And this opportunity will expire, unless we collectively contribute to its place in the Baccarat Museum. Hmmmmn...there's an idea... I'm really serious, here...and issues of Piracy and Boogeymen aside, you-me-and like-minded others could indeed spearhead an effort to ensure we help to immortalize what BTC is all about And who better than StarFleet Commander ECD to captain this effort, before the Baccarat Klingons even catch on... Hey, Pirates and Boogeymen will always-and-forever exist....they have for centuries, since the game was invented, they do now, and they won't go away. We cannot stop that, nor is it our job to do so. But I think we owe it to Ellis and Keith to weigh in on this topic, which IS REALLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

Pretty simple, I think. Ellis has come up with so, so many " systems", helpful hints, betting progressions, etc. for baccarat....and they are all contained here in this forum. And this just goes back to 2007! Sure, just look through thousands of posts, and figure it out ....each one for themselves, right? But what happens if the Internet goes Dark, or this forum is shut down? Pretty soon, no amount of simple search is going to uncover how Twister worked, or why AD1 was once in vogue, or SAP ( killed off, then resurrected as part of MDB... And countless others.... Ever notice how the work of many artists and famous people is NOT widely known until they are no longer painting, or no longer acting? Or, no longer publishing.... Seems while we still have the maestro, it would be nice to put all the basic rules for all the systems in one place....maybe an EBook....which we could have at our fingertips for years to come.... A couple of pages per " chapter" would suffice.... A couple of pages on each system, each betting strategy which could be referenced each time a player wanted to enter a casino... I have to believe IT ALL WORKS, some of the time....8 deck box card order washed early am, preshuffled, etc....these systems and strategies relate to precious systems and strategies , some of which were developed 100's of years ago! We have the inventor. We have the historian. We have a person like Steve that could help put this into plain English. I'm just saying....likely there are other ideas... BUT WOULDNT T.H.A.T. Be worth something??? ( Before its too late) Before the party is over...

So, I'll ask again. Is this simply an illustration of THE QUICK and THE DEAD ? ( 1995 movie...have a look) Or, were we all just 2Hi to " get it" ? Shouldn't we be collectively finding a way to preserve all that is, before it's too late?

Sounds like Mikey was ahead of his time as well... UFC now a " sanctioned" betting option at sportsbooks worldwide... Go figure...

This is the perfect example of not being able to "see the forest, for the trees" Ellis/Keith/Steve- ( just sayin') YOU WANT NEW MEMBERS??? Well, do you? ( yes, really, we do!) Why not be the answer to Miclus83's fantasy? And the question so many have asked before them...WHERE DO I GO TO PRACTICE? Why Not Right Here? ( so many shoes...so little time...) And the answer to all your dreams right here in front of you.... YOU CAN DO IT Still think the movie WATERBOY has nothing to do with Baccarat? or Blackjack? Or like Jack Nicholson once said...perhaps " you can't handle the truth" BTC...be the answer.

Thanks, MVS You know a lot more about this than me...and I like to think I know a "bit" about anything on which I comment...... I am just trying to help others learn from my mistakes ( or perhaps my stubbornness to understand the "reality" surrounding on-line casinos, as they relate to US players...) You not only summed-it-up very well...you gave guidance and direction to those who want to give-it-a-go... Kevin PS- And whatever you decide, BTC players, read the "really, really fine print" about those on-line "matching bonuses" !! (Bonus offers formulated by the devil, for the devil...) Good luck to anyone walks down that path....

Steve makes a few really honest, really important points here. 1) if there are so many of us all over the place willing to "help you" with live play, why not take advantage of that? 2) he mentions TBL and RD1....thinking many of the newbies...the ones who need the most help...might not fully " understand" WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, unless they pursue advanced seminar training, or simply take advantage of those of us willing to help in person...live play/telephone consults/no charge 3) 5 hours....28 units....that's $700 ( using mostly $25 units)....no fancy progressions/regressions up-or-down, no sleight-of-hand, no 3-card-monte "tricks" You need to get in on this, if you want to "survive"/ "play" long term... This is Real. This is how you will win. Kevin

Hey, Don ALL of your questions have been discussed/debated right here in the forum I suggest you start looking at a few threads a day, and take note of which ones " answer" your questions...add those notes to your manual. Next, look at all the Utube videos Keith has put out there in cyberspace ( more tidbits) Your questions are very common ones, and they have been answered over-and-over on the NOR forum threads... At the same time, there are MANY POSSIBLE ( and profitable) ways to approach a shoe, a session, your bankroll, etc.etc --------it's going to take some time to find the right " fit" for you, so practice , practice, practice on the many, many shoes which have been posted on the forum ( before " practicing" with real $$$ in the casino) Personally, I find it very difficult to learn just by " reading" things...Ellis, Steve and Keith regularly sponsor training updates, webinars, etc. to get new members up to speed, and help those who might be struggling.... Finally, you are always welcome to call me and I can point out a few things which might accelerate your learning curve... All the best, Kevin 850-687-3128

Thanks, Ellis. I'll keep trying to get ahold of Carlos... As for the "play your own money" sentiment, I 100% agree! Kevin 850-687-3128

Not sure of this, but cannot seem to verify either... Actually have ticket to Toronto and rez for Fallsview Casino to meet Carlos next week to play BlackJack...set up early December... Have emailed and called, but no confirmation of his " availability" for same. Say it ain't so Carlos.... Also, Ellis...was he really " banned" /resigned as Admin or ??? Kevin

F'ing monkeys! They were all over Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz...Good thing the movie was not made recently in the SanFernando Valley in LA...at least not today's SFV!! ( I'll stay away from the TV-MA explanation of just what THAT has to do with Baccarat...don't want to spoil it for anyone) To All BTC players, Happy U Year...2015 will be all about U WINNING!!! P.S. As for THE Monkees, have to look at their song list for some " dragon bonus" inspiration...