kachatz1

Oh, and as for Roulette, I rarely play, so I am really not qualified to answer that question... I have read some things about strategy, how to play, when to play, identifying betting opportunities, table selection, etc. Lots of books written about Roulette, since the game has been around so long and is popular in pretty much any casino that has any table games at all. And I have played some roulette, but I understand just enough to be an " average" player. Perhaps someone else here on the forum could much better answer your question about roulette and how a Hit-and-Run strategy might be employed?

Brad- This is definitely a Hit-and-Run method, but it can be just as easily adapted to a Sit-and-Run style of play. Hit-and-Run is well suited to a casino where they have lots of tables, and anyone can just walk around and place a bet on a table, at the moment of their choosing, and (win or lose) move on to the next table. Repeat as long as you want. The Gold Coast casino here in Las Vegas is perfect for this style of play... Walk around, scrutinize the tote boards, and look for " OPPORTUNiSTIC" betting situations, where " the trend is your friend", or might just be favorable to a well-timed, well conceived plan like making a single MDB bet. Nothing special, just use what you have learned to "pick your spot" to wager. You can use a scorecard to keep track of wins and losses, just like you might when you sit down at a table of your choosing. Don't have a lot of table selection where you play? Well , just Sit-and-Run, then... Just means you do not play every hand, you simply look for the best opportunities to wager and do so as they arise. There is no magic to this. I fully recognize the odds for making a single OTBL bet, an Opposite bet, or a Repeat bet are each 50/50 And by placing a single bet, then " waiting for" ( Sit-and-Run) , or " moving to another table" ( Hit-and-Run) to scout out your next bet does NOT change the odds of the game. But if you know how to spot a NOR-like scenario, or you prefer to look for MDB type betting opportunities, or you understand 4D like I do, you can most definitely , AT THE LEAST, bet more strategically, which should improve your win percentage, and should make this type of strategy work in your favor. If it's NOT working, either leave the casino, or take a break and assess WHY it's not working. I have to admit, I do not ( ever) play on line, so it is difficult for me to assess whether or not this would be advantageous to you or not, so let me qualify this to say I only have a whole lot of B&M experience...none for on-line. And I use this Hit-and-Run approach whenever I simply don't want to sit down and play virtually every hand, which I can do with Pretty much any " system " BTW, I also did this very same thing the other day when I met up with W2F...he sat down at a table and played, and I walked around the tables and looked for single-bet betting opportunities. It worked that day as well...but I have come to expect this. It's just table selection on steroids. I hope that answers your questions...( It's a lot simpler than perhaps I can express in writing, but it is simple...)

As always, I'm ready, willing and able to press the flesh with any and all, no matter their economic circumstances. No, this is NOT a game to play at a single table ( though it would work handsomely at times...) Yes, it is much more suited to a hit-and-run strategy in a casino with a greater number of tables than 2 or 3 No, I do not espouse this as the latest/greatest , nor will it supplant " sliced bread" as same.... Yes, I AM looking to give every player I can another tool , in hopes they will join the ranks of our TOOLBOX TEACHERS, and contribute regularly to help us all with building our own house. No, people who know me will come to realize I am all-in for YOUR " greater good", and I only posted this as just a means to an end...that being giving back to the community we belong to. Yes, it really did happen. The results are what they were, and posted as same. No, I cannot, or will not state your results would be the same, under similar circumstances . Yes, YMMV,-and vary they will... No, I'm not trying to make any point about How2 Play, other than the obvious one of the more you know, the more likely you are to succeed. Yes, I Am touting Ellis, and it's not because I feel sorry for him, it's because I really want less experienced players to take advantage of the best education they might ever receive. If only they knew how to recognize it. No, perhaps NOR in its " purest form" no longer works all, or most of the time. Yes, when NOR doesn't, MDB might. And vice-versa We have an incredible community of talented, smart people who can make this as clear as rain. The question is " Will We" ? Or will we choose to keep this all to ourselves... Believing the casino will catch on, and toss us aside. Thinking, for even a moment, that casinos worldwide conspire to make our lives miserable Wondering, out loud, why we didn't win the last shoe... ( umm,pause,clearing my throat) The facts are that nothing has changed. Nothing " should" stop you from winning, except yourself. If only you pay attention. If only you are willing to recognize how to pave a smooth road, and how to get out of the ditches you seemingly/ repeatedly ( ME TOO!!!!!) dig for yourself. The big question is not " can you" , or " " will you" ... Or even " do you want to." Because, of course you would answer " YES" ( I disagree... Sorry)

Visit the Paris, or even Venetian, here in LV and you will gaze skyward towards blue sky and white clouds Not so much at the Gold Coast, but that's where I played this am... Wanted to give all the newbies a " quick grab" at success, so I played the simplistic OTBL/O/R system I dragged out of the " systems bone pile " the other day, and commented about here on the forum People, Peeps, perps seem to LUV the Numbers so here goes.. When I started, only 7 tables in play...when I left the casino, 13 All of this just randomly walking around and around the circle of tables, but with the knowledge you can make just one bet and go the next table ( or skip a few tables if you want) Bets FOR an OTBL result, after the last hand resulted in OTBL result - won 48, lost 29 Bets FOR an Opposite result, after the the previous hand resulted in an Opposite to the prior hand ( but was not an OTBL result ) - won 14, lost 8 Bets FOR a REPEAT result, after the previous hand resulted in a REPEAT of the prior hand ( but was not an OTBL result) - won 19, lost 7 Started with $500, left after commission, tips, etc. with a WIN of +$798.00 , playing FLAT BET $25, more than I started with, in less than 2 hours...no progressions, just flat betting... I know for all you Baccarat gold-diggers, this may not floatURboat But almost 160% ROI? In less than two hours? > $350 ( cash)per hour, never sitting down? You want fast-and-dirty? Here you go. You got fast-and-dirty. Any newbie sitting on the fence, pay the man, before the man goes away... His name is Ellis. He taught me about TABLE SELECTION. I took it to heart, practiced it, and now...many years later...the results. Sign Up. While you still can. (Or, bet FUTURES based on the GREEK THING, and you just might break the bank that's not already broken...) Psst.... Now that's gambling....

Hey, MT- Sorry we never got to play together at Potowatami , or Rivers... But.. You can be the Robin Hood of the North, if you want to... Rob from the rich ( the casinos) , and give to the poor ( uhh, like you and me?) Because I encouraged you to join the forum, in spite of its cost...and over several " conversations", I feel responsible, like I " owe U" ( well, not much, because if you have played like what you have learned, you should be WAY AHEAD!) But, , if you want ... I'll help you put NOR, SAP and whatever-you-want together into one system...one method of play, one does-it-all. Like d'Artagnan...all for one, and one for all You know where to find me. PS - you figure this out, you are well on your way to riches... e.n.o.u.g.h. s.a.i.d.

Had the good fortune to meet up with Way2Fast yesterday. We exchanged thoughts over how the game has changed over the last few years, and how Ellis has helped " guide us" to learn how to navigate through rougher baccarat waters than might have existed just a few years back... We all owe him and Keith a lot for keeping this forum headed in a positive direction. Then we went and " scouted tote boards " for a while, commenting to one another how we could see the most favorable opportunities " unfold" right in front of us. We came across two tables side-by-side... One shoe was highly MDB favorable, while the shoe at the table next to it was clearly a REPEAT shoe and ended up with 21 opposites and 48 repeats! The message is clear...no matter what " system" you favor, or what your " go to" betting strategy is, the more you understand about a " handful" of methods, the easier you will see -WITH CLARITY- what bias may or may not exist in a given shoe...and to spot changes as they occur within the shoe which may alter your approach, or tell you it's time to exit the shoe. Nice to meet another forum member like W2F, and exchange ideas in person with another player who takes the forum, and the game of Baccarat, seriously, and is not put off by having to do what it takes to win. He definitely knows his stuff!

Hey, Brad Have to answer with a couple of " seemingly conflicting" answers, so don't think I am a ball of confusion... 1) Anyone of us here has ever been to a casino like the GC, or ANYWHERE, let's you make an " over the top of other players bets". , then move on to the next table understands the " value" that proposition bet accords you....make a bet....win/ lose....should I stay or should I go? Some parts of the world, including several USA, give you that choice. So, not sure I can give you a definitive answer, except to say I LUV to " Take the money and run", meaning that given a choice, and with the opportunity to place a single bet, then move on to another table, I am likely to do just that ...win or lose. 2) Which brings up the subject of PROGRESSIONS. You play long enough, you should have enough tools in the toolbox to make sure you can WinMoreThanULose, even flat betting....( I'll let you figure this out) 3) There are Times , and Places, where we simply have to deal with a casino with a single table, or maybe two....with no other options for hundreds of miles - and there simply is no magic number, no " do this in 5, or else"...( never measure ...or wager... your stop-loss or stop-win parameters up against the player whose bankroll seems larger, but for which you have no empirical evidence as to sits size or origin). InOtherWords, stop worrying about KeepingUpWIthTheJones's ( or The Kardashians), and focus on The Game. Your bankroll. Your Knowledge. Your Reality. You come this far in your Baccarat education, the only one you are competing against is YOU. The only one can beat you is YOU. So since we are on the MDB ( Mostly Determined Believers) forum, I have to tell you the truth. I do what makes sense to me. In the moment. With what I have in my pocket. I stopped visiting Casino ATM's a long time ago. Anyone smart, experienced enough, or simply willing to lay out the dough to be on this MDB forum knows e.x.a.c.t.l.y. what I am talking about... And since it seems to invoke feelings of consternation as to why I might invoke the lessons of others to explain a simple game like Baccarat, I'll let you figure out what The Temptatations and The Steve Miller Band have to do with this post, if anything... Smile. You're on CandidCamera.

Brad- Sorry for the confusion...I originally " voice texted myself " this while I was at the Gold Coast, then posted it to the forum using my iPad , without a close " edit" of that particular part of my post... You are right...it is confusing, and pretty much impossible! At least you understand the " simplicity" of the " triggers" and how to apply them... GREAT for just cruising through a casino, placing a handful of bets... Many, many times you'll just have to place ONE BET! THEN MOVE ON.....

Hey, ZT Like A.N.Y.T.H.I.N.G., this " quick and EZ" method will keep your grandmother knowing why she began to can goods to get through the lean months... But grandma knows for sure, people can tend to over complicate things...( like thinking there's a better grandpa out there perfectly suited for her...) I frequently play at a casino called The Gold Coast, and since they let you just " walk around" and make single bets, then move onto the next table, an hour or so into my " hit-and-run-play" at all 14 tables , this one came back to me...I just added the OTBL rule, and away I went for another couple of hours It's TonyTheTiger strong for flat betting, and with a progression it's pretty darn good... Try it and you'll see why. Kevin

Here' s a bit of Bac2TheFuture for those of you just wanting to win a few units per shoe, and STOP when you do...or Don't I did not " invent" this, just putting it into context of today's Baccarat environment Pre-shuffled, or not. Look, 50% of all events should be 1-IAR'S, and 25% 2-IAR'S, over the course of your " session experience" , whether 1 shoe played at a single casino, or 20 shoes played out over 3 days at different casinos... N.O. - it will not be exact, whether per-shoe, or for 20 But, unless the casino is plundering and pillaging relentlessly, or all of Vegas is " in cahoots" with one-another, it pretty much will be... So here is an old-school " system" , resurrected from the bone-pile, with a modern-day twist ( takes into account NOR bias + RegressionTo The Mean attributes of MDB) Just glance at the tote board and look at/keep track of three things: OTBL Opposite Repeat Rules: Anytime last hand resulted in an OTBL " win", no matter what bet,OTBL again next hand Anytime last hand DID NOT result in an OTBL win , bet THE SAME AS whether the last hand was an Opposite, or a Repeat of the previous hand. Example: Was last hand OTBL? Opposite? Repeat? ( of the previous hand) If answer was : OTBL - YES O - YES R-NO You must bet The next hand will be an OTBL result. If last hand was OTBL - YES O- NO R - YES You must bet the next hand will be an OTBL result. Note: If next hand would be a repeat of the result from the prior hand ( OTBL + O, or OTBL + R), this indicates and even stronger bet on OTBL result for the next hand....but in any case, bet OTBL regardless if the last hand was an OTBL result... Now, if last hand DID NOT result in an OTBL result compared to the previous hand, but instead was just an O or R result from the previous play, just bet that the next hand will repeat as an O or R result again. Best use is for small overall wins per shoe ( 1,2,3+ units)...then move on to another shoe, leave casino, etc. EZ to apply w/progressions, or not... This is great " hit and run" baccarat, or moving table to table, as opposed to playing whole shoes or waiting for MDB triggers Does well if shoe is producing lots of 1's , or 2/3's in a given section of the shoe Or.....lots of 4+ steaks in a shoe..., with normal amount of 1s, 2's 3's as a % of normal distribution... AND REMEMBER, best for " hit it and forget it" advantage play...( thanks, TRBFLA) Good luck, and give it a quick try for just a few hands, selected randomly, from your previously played shoes...

Just google the words " Gempak preshuffled cards" Not saying they are the only one...but in Vegas I do know that some casinos now " preshuffling in their back room" You think they might be prone to a little hanky-panky??? Just talking out loud...

1) I think McVince has spoken favorably towards the wizard games, so you might want to PM him 2) Do your self a HUGE favor and go out and buy 8 decks of same colored cards. - You can do your own shuffle. You do not need a shuffle master - On the back of many casinos' BAC scorecards, the drawing rules are listed. You do not need to memorize them. - Get yourself some poker chips, and some spare BAC cards to use. - Now, turn up all the TVS in your house. Blast some music. shut all the curtains, and remove the clocks from the wall. - Pour yourself a few stiff drinks. ( pretend they are free) - Fnally, go out and get your most annoying neighbors to come over and role- play the PitBoss and TheCocktailWaitress. You are NOW in a position to practice day-and-night, and not have to worry about whether the cards are rigged or not. YOU CONTROL THE SHUFFLE, so YOU can figure out the impact of various shuffle techniques/durations. And while you know I am dogging you about creating your own set of " casino conditions", I think you get the point. BUT DO get the cards and chips! Really will improve your decision making and perception of how to turn the card biases or card randomness attributes to your favor..... Kevin

Hey, McV- Call me 850-687-3128 or email me mkyle8385@gmail.com and I'll talk you through how EZ 4D is to play. I have shared this with many others... Oh, and I don't Skype. There's no charge whatsoever ... Cant help you with 2Hi... Kevin

I re-read it all the time. It is so powerful, you really almost cannot lose. Unless you disregard Kenny Rogers' advice . You can google it. All the best.

Pando's experience is not that unusual...BUT, you will have to take it slow and study, practice a lot The seminars can be very helpful, but they are best utilized when you have already gained enough knowledge to be deciding each hands play based on the system methodology best suited to your casino you play at The seminars then serve to help you " iron out/ correct" the minor glitches in your play, and reinforce the understanding you already have That you even asked the question suggests to me you are a good candidate to learn, practice and WIN at the game...it is far more than luck, and is quite a lot of work to become " skilled" Good luck to you. Kevin

All sounds exciting! Can't wait to see the results. I believe W2F has made a few comments about " bending/ modifying" the 7 rules to more accurately reflect his experience...of this, I AM NOT CERTAIN... But for all the team here at BTC, since he seems to have had the most success with MDB+, do the " 7 rules" 70%/95% win rates you quoted reflect this? I understand we all have a certain discipline" to which we adhere/ play/ execute...but if you could clarify for the entire BTC community, you can't help but help THE CAUSE! And it's your cause I am talking about...wanting to see this become like rat poison in a jail full of snitches... All the best, Kevin

Hey Ellis- As I said the other day, trying to sign up as an upgrade from NOR player status... Sent PM to Keith... No word yet. Let's get this done. Thx. Kevin

Ellis- I emailed Keith If it's like you said it is, I'll get you a bunch of new members. Kevin

OK, then. I am signing up today. Since I live in Vegas, it's about time. And as this unfolds, I will work to get you those other 499 a day! Kevin

Hey, Ellis This was a work of art...a truly captivating picture of what our BTC players...both Bac and BJ....can aspire to if they understand a few simple rules to follow... Playing conditions to look out for, and what to do when encountered... What to do before they sit down..what to do once that notice a particular disparity... And how to recognize a few of the symptoms of when they simply must get out of a game... So in the interest of clarity, if you could confirm one last time that MDB+ has a documented, irrefutable 70% " flat bet win rate" if the rules are followed in Vegas, and a 95% 1-2-4 negative progression win rate if the same rules are followed, then IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS Flat rate bet = Win 70/100 hands, and lose 30/100 = 40 net units won per 100 units wagered Negative Progression betting of 1-2-4 betting yields = Win 95 x 1 unit, and lose 5x7 = 35 units, for a net of 60 units won per every 1-2-4 progression entered into And assuming all 7 rules followed and all 7 triggers are well documented and adhered to... THEN, AS YOU SAY, ONE SIMPLY CANNOT LOSE over " what reasonable number of hands played?", fully recognizing that these are " averages only" , and the sample size of 100 " events" may result in a differential +/- favorable" to the above results... Could you PLEASE CLARIFY? Because if this is true, you should get 500 new members a day. Minimum. All the best, Kevin

So...well the win was far more than 16, and the Casino I do not think smart to name on this forum...as for the Cage issue, it was really no big deal, just understand I have both FL and NV ID's...and this was NOT a major strip casino... So anyways, all dressed up and ready to go, I drive over to The Orleans, thinking I am meeting a few individuals on behalf of the person who asked me to evaluate what he and his wife thought to be " an incredible business opportunity"...since they are both realtors, I figured it was about Real Estate, but They wanted me to hear the pitch, rather than tell me what it was... So I get there, meet up with them, and we proceed to one of The Orleans ballrooms. Where there were over 1,000 people in the room! I'll spare you the drama of the 3 hour ordeal...it was a pitch for AmWay!!!!!!! Yikes! There I am, a pocket bulging with cash, and Out of respect for this individual and his wife, I sit there for 3 hours...and it wasn't until after 2 hours into the presentation that the speakers even divulged what it was... So I reasoned that while the night produced an incredible Baccarat Win, I should have known that Lady Luck was gonna get me sooner or later... Oh, I'll probably go back to the casino where I won the $$, I like it too much since there is almost never anyone else plays there... And W2F is right, in the scheme of things, the money won is not so big,... But how I won? And " why" I won? Well that has a lot to do with this Forum...and having played so many shoes, I have long since lost count... I guess all's well that ends well...( if you believe their really was a Shakespeare...wonder if he ever played Baccarat?...probably not...)

Colored up, cashed out, signed the forms and left the casino. Yeah, it took me almost 30 minutes to cash out, not so unusual...( but in the interest of my own wish to remain " under the radar", the casino remaining unnamed on this forum), and when the Cage called " upstairs", they were instructed to call " ThePit" to verify that I had actually won all the chips there, that day...in other words, had been there , at the table, and won Not trying to conceal chips, willing to take the entire win, sign the forms and get out ( Title 31, blah, blah, blah)...because, at least at that point I was thinking I'd return another day and play my regular 4D, like I always do ( except last night...) Cashier finally offered me a check. I insisted on cash. Meanwhile, the PitBoss and Dealer had supposedly " gone on break" Long story short, I got my $$, but took me about 4 times as long as playing six hands had taken... On the way out, I walked back past the table...It had been shut down, I guessed " closed for the evening" (?) I had no intention of " giving back" , anyways...just wondering...and all dressed up in suit and tie, which was the first time in over a year, ( hey, it's Vegas!), I headed to my meeting... at another Casino.... Which is where Lady Luck decided she needed a piece of me...Somehow, It must have pre-ordained that I would just have to find out "the hard way "( and I'm not talking about a visit to the Craps table...)

I just might have experienced my last visit to the one of my favorite casinos... Luck can only take a person so far, and my luck may have run out. Attended a seminar tonite at The Orleans, but went on a casino hunt beforehand...Kind of like the old TV show Sea Hunt, but no Lloyd Bridges, and the fish can seem bigger sitting at the table...( Sea Hunt,not JAWS...) Been wanting to do this for a long, long time, and tonite was the night...only had a few hours to spend before heading off to The Orleans, so thought I'd give it a try. I am in no way suggesting you try this, and I always wish for you to gamble responsibly and with the " cheat sheet" ( aka " rules") Ellis espouses... So while I have wagered larger amounts on a single hand, and even larger on various sports bets over 30 years of gaming ( never liked Nintendo or Game Boy...Pong is more my style), tonite I did something I always wanted to do... I bet $1,000 on the first hand I played...with every intention to " walk away" if I lost... Well I did not lose that hand. After 2 hands in the shoe, it was BB So I was down $ 50 in commission, having played the second hand in the shoe after the first one was a Banker... So, why not bet the $2,000 on the next hand? Not a smart bet... But I figured OTBL just might be the play, and it won, so now there were $4,000 in chips laying in front of me... And $ 50 in commission I still owed.... BBP so far....always wanted to do this, so I rolled the dice and bet Player again...like I was thinking, OTBL... It won. Now there's $8,000 in chips laying there...and that $50 in B commission I could not get out of my head... Table max was $10,000... And BBPP history of the shoe...I decided " WTF"? And bet it all...all $8,000, on Banker And won. Now the commission , another $400 was really messing with me...and $16,000? After only 4 bets... But table max is table max. So, before I could think too much about it, I swiped all $ 16,000 off the table... And promptly put $ 10,000 back on Banker. Dealer yells" table Max!!", and won't pull the cards... Until the floor manager/ Pit boss comes over...asks me for my ID, and I hand her my Players Card. Not good enough... No, my real ID ( aka drivers license) She OK's the bet, and Here I am, nervous Nellie, but knowing I already won a good sum, less that pesky commission, leave my bet up. Player has a 7. Bank has a 2. I stand up, ready to leave for the Orleans, and B draws a 6. More commission piling up in front of me...just a few inches from $20,000 on the B circle... Shoulda' woulda' coulda' left right there, so I ask the Dealer what she thinks the next hand will be... So far, BBPPBB...and of course she says Player... So I dutifully remove my $20 large, take $10 off the top and bet. And I bet Banker. Played NOR a long time...it suggested a P bet, but that last b8 got me to thinking to bet another B... P draws a K-2, B a Q-6. Player has to draw, and does... It's a 10 card. Banker wins. I don't think I've ever paid that much commission in so short a period of time...in fact I know I have'nt... Pit Boss is standing beside me by now, and I stand up and color-up post-haste, and she is doing her best Pit-Bull imitation as the Dealer counts out the chips... She didn't seem happy, although the dealer seemed to appreciate the $500 tip... And that is when my troubles began, and why I will likely never be going back...

Ozzy is right....it is the republic's forum. It is about a bunch of people willing to give, willing to open their Baccarat hearts and minds... To contribute to the welfare of others. And the more we " talk", the more we " converse", the more we share ideas and concepts with each other... THE MORE WE WILL COLLECTIVELY ... Shhhh..don't tell anyone... But our singular goal is to.... (BEAT THE CASINO)