ECD

Oz, c'mon now, have you been holding out on us? ...lol There was a lady who took 15 million from the Parisienne in Macau but this is a different person or group.

I swear I have not been to Macau! Lol. What BTC players have been taking Wynn's money?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-28/how-casino-mogul-steve-wynn-lost-10-million-on-baccarat

It doesn't matter what proof we offer that the Holy Grail of Baccarat doesn't exist...that there is NO mechanical system that can beat Baccarat...there will always be people desperate for a chance at the "Pot of Gold"...willing to grasp at straws...believing the blurb...hoping against hope that the next whoopie do new system that they shell out their hard earned for, will be the one that works And as long as they exist...there will be "bottom feeders" that prey on their hopes...their dreams...and that pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. If you want to join the ranks of the gullible and the "terminally stupid"...there are plenty of Sites that will promise you the world. BTC makes no false promises but has many members that have become winners through hard work and the assistance of other members and the use of the tools available on this Site. Your call...

You gotta love this stuff...P T Barnham absolutely nailed it...LOL From the Forum that cannot be named... Firstly...This from the Public Forum... Therefore we made ANB and OTB4L partner 20 unit systems and the tote board tells us which is ideal for the shoe at hand. Between these two systems, we beat EVERYTHING a casino can deal. We are "INVINCIBLE"! ...Hmm...maybe not... But behind closed doors...From the (not so Private) Private Members Forum...LOL ANB is so new, we haven’t had time to experiment much yet....So let's flog off an Invincible System that isn't working under Casino conditions I also like Carlos’ idea of only deploying the CSCS bet when both sides are suspended which is rare. But we don’t need to wait for the ZZ to go 5. We could jump in after it goes 4...YEP...Let's make it up as we go along...err...Isn't Carlos the independent source who tested 63 shoes and averaged +14...Why would you change winning formulae unless??? But the 345 puts a limit on your highest bet. I think ANB sorely needs that! ...Isn't that exactly what way2fast...PJ ...myself and others were all saying? Carlos, give it a try. I think you will really like it!...Geroutovit Carlos...Put that smelly thing away...I meant the 3 4 5 ...not that deviate shit again...It's so hard to get good help nowadays. July 25, 2017 at 11:46 am#5017REPLY Participant Spent some more time pondering the CSCS rule, and I almost completely agree that it should be abandoned. Here’s why: ...Don't tell me...let me guess...It isn't working...LOL July 23, 2017 at 7:41 pm#5014REPLY Spectator I am still exploring but keeping it no worse than minus 12 as I am giving ANB a wide berth to really get used to it ... MINUS 12...MINUS 12 you say??? LMFAO July 25, 2017 at 11:29 am#5016REPLY Participant I think I would switch from OTB4L after 3 losses or get out of the shoe. I am having the same trouble. Also using the OT count I have found out playing ANB I can lose on the +count and the – count just the way the card fall ...err...then why bother keeping a count?...I don't believe I just read that...beyond stupid...How do these people even tie their own shoelaces? Don't quote me, but I feel Phase 7 of the CFC Business Plan coming up from our favourite scammer..."I have a new idea...Been 40 years in the making"...LOL

BTW: Memo to Way2fast..."Nailed it" That was seriously funny shit but seriously true as well. Phase 7 was another coffee spitter...LOL

I think you forgot to add somewhere around 3 and 4 of the CFC Secret Business Plan "extensive testing completed by outside source" (Carlos)... always confirming a ridiculously high hit rate on paper but never seems to come up with the goods in real play. I'm not sure that Carlos should count as an outside source given what he is usually sniffing. What I do find surprising is that Ellis with his 160 IQ still hasn't worked out yet why his dirty underwear keeps disappearing. And you are correct...Phase 4 and Phase 5 are definitely currently in the works, even to the point of admitting that they have to do something about preventing the ridiculously high bets that ANB can reach. The 3 4 5 Progression has been mentioned as a possible solution, but in all seriousness and in the spirit of goodwill and reconciliation, I would go a step further and offer for consideration "Oz's NON Patented SECRET WEAPON...The 6 7 8 Progression"...(The Progression you use when you don't really use a progression)....My BAD!...It's already been done. Funny how PJ...you and I and others experienced and exposed those same problems after limited testing and it took this long for a 160 IQ and an "undie sniffing outside source tester" to pick up on it... Go figure...

It seems the site which cannot be named was actually based on a well thought-out business model. Came across the original Business Plan put together by some no-name Canadian business consulting firm (likely they were never paid for their work). Check out page 26 from the Business Plan which depicts the life cycle of a baccarat system: Wow, never knew how well they planned it out. But clearly this is the model that has been in use by a certain system-seller for some time. I can think of, oh about 7-8 systems, which have gone through this entire 7 phase life cycle. But I'm sure the poor souls at the unmentioned site think this time it's different. Based on recent posts over there, it seems ANB is currently in phases 4 and 5. Won't be long until the next "new idea" emerges.

FACT: The shoes that are are Machine Shuffled are different to Hand Shuffled shoes...The same applies to Boxed Cards. No big deal...still beatable but be aware that with MS and BC's that the most obvious bet that has everyone going "apeshit"...is likely to be a "WAIT and see" bet. Also...MS cards seem to be different on the lower limit tables to MS cards on the Higher Limit tables....Go figure...

Great response. I don't care who you are or your method of play. If your wife or significant other hasn't approached you complaining that you are on the computer too much, then you have not spent enough time practicing. I feel that I am an accomplished player. I practice my azz off.

LMFAO...Again I have to clean coffee off my keyboard...

On the shoe with the picture of the board, my first bet was a VinSap signal at hand 5. For a while I just played signals for VinSap, second liner, s40, OT. By hand 26 there was some good shoe history to suggest SS possible. On Hand 29 went to SS, while still looking for VinSap signals. Once I had two columns at 12, I drop VinSap. But continued SS as there was never a second player again until end of the shoe. References to hand #'s exclude ties.

Close...but no cigar...LOL LMFAO L = Laughing...M = My...F = Freaking (sorta)...A = Arse...O = Off

In the real world...very few people will have the self-control/patience to only risk 5% of their total Bankroll and will graduate to $500 units well before they hit $100K and a losing streak of 5 or 6 shoes would take over half their Bankroll and ALL their self-confidence.

Smashed it right out of the park Wolfy

1) They are all based on Negative Progressions and sooner or later come to grief with a succession of confidence and Bankroll sapping losses. Imagine this scenario...You have done very well for yourself playing ANB and with their STOP/LOSS at -10 or worse and you have achieved a Bankroll of $100K ...we are playing with real money here so, in reality, you won't want to risk more than 5% of your total Bankroll per shoe, so that formulae allows for a unit size of $500 Shoe 1...You hit SL and lose $5K...No big deal...BR is still $95K Shoe 2...Again you hit your SL and lose another $5K...BR is reduced to $90K...You start to get a bit tetchy but you have been winning consistently, so you stick with $500 units Shoe 3...Lose another $5K...BR is down to $85K ...you know that you should be reducing your unit size but you reason that you can't possibly lose another shoe in succession so you stick with $500K units Shoe 4...Lose another $5K...BR is down to $80K...you realise that you have just lost the equivalent of two small automobiles and doubts creep in "Was I just lucky?... are all my hopes and dreams about to come crashing down?"...This time you do reduce your Unit size to $400...but before you play another shoe you replay your losing shoes and take note of why they lost and you decide to not make the same mistakes...you vary the system...You say that you won't...but trust me...with real money at stake...that is exactly what you will do. Shoe 5...Lose $4K...Your changing of the system didn't work out...if only you had stuck to the rules, you would have won...if only? BR is now $76K and it is really playing with your head...You are thinking that maybe I was lucky or...I should have reduced my unit size as per the Formulae after my first loss...you are angry at yourself, but you reason that you cant possibly lose another shoe...it just can't happen Shoe 6...But it did...You played this shoe really badly...you refused to make the big bets called because your head is screwed up and you lose again. Your confidence is shot The wise players will take a break from the game and do many hours of research and hopefully return with a more professional attitude and maybe become winners again... Some Players will make the mistake of chasing their losses and in conjunction with a screwed up head and lack of confidence...it will end badly Others will take what money they have won and take a break promising themselves that they will return to Baccarat at a future date...but they never do. How do I know this?...Because to a varying extent, I have been involved in all three scenarios. My hit rate was higher than any hit rate by all the advocated Mechanical Systems...but still I ran into the inevitable string of losses. It will happen and the feeling is crap...believe me...absolute crap. I lost my entire Bankroll in one day because I started chasing my losses rationalising that my unlucky streak had to come to an end. It did...I lost all my money. Maybe now you understand why I so aggressively pursue the charlatans offering false hope to the gullible. It's not a bad thing to want a better life...we all want that...but it is a BAD thing to make outlandish claims in order to make a few bucks...but it is a far more despicable act to encourage people's dreams only for them to be destroyed. If you take away a man's dreams...you take away a man's hope. The good news is that there is hope...I dragged myself back from the abyss with hard work...discipline and perseverance and if I can do it, so can others...many have. The tools are available on this site, but it is not an easy road to travel if you choose to take it...but by all hell...the benefits can be enormous for those willing to put in the effort BTW: Have you ever wondered why the people flogging these systems are still fart arsing around playing Reds and Greens while claiming the credit for those that have had great success?...Think about it.

LMFAO... Guys, maybe you could figure it out in 40 years too! But remember, I was a Calculus Professor with a 160 IQ. Why bother? Save yourself 40 years. I teach you EVERYTHING I know. I keep no secrets. Will you teach me to walk on water too?...LOL...More dribble comes out of that site than a Bloodhound penned with a bitch on heat.

William...ANB is not a good method at all. Mechanical Negative Progressions ALWAYS end badly. Their figures are fudged and they are desperately trying to make it work, but it won't happen. They use it in conjunction with NOR...so it is basically just another NOR System in itself based on table recognition. ANB has been tested extensively by myself...Way2fast...PapaJoe and others and we have all given it a huge "FAIL" ...Who do you choose to believe?...Long term proven winners or Carlos playing on his kitchen table? BTW: Trust me ...if PJ can't make ANB work then nobody can and nothing that pusillanimous little toad says...no amount of fudging the figures... is going to convince me otherwise

Carlos monitors this site??? BUGGER!...Does that mean I'm wiped from his Christmas List? ...LMFAO

Very insightful post McVince. You are absolutely correct that it has been real players, playing in real casinos and playing shoes one hand at a time that have found how best to use parts of that long list of systems. It cant be done by deciding how to play a shoe after the shoe is complete. I sense you are also right about many CFC players seeing the light. Unfortunately, the CFC/Dean/Ellis business model is all about fleecing potential new members who do not understand it is all bullshit.

Oz, you are correct. Every Ellis system that has been successful has one (And only one) thing in common. The system was tweaked by a member that fit their eye. The problem with the CFC staff is that they cannot check their egos at the door to welcome the "Team" approach. You name the system and someone put their spin on it and made it better. If the systems were so good and can beat "Any" type of bias then it should be stuck with. Also, Carlos monitors this and brings it back to the powers that be. That is good news so they know that there are other players not willing to drink the Kool-Aid. I have been in contact with so many players that have had their fill of CFC.

What I don't understand is that the CFC "Disciples" of "He who must be adored" must see these original posts on their Private Forum and must be aware of the exaggerations and downright blatant lies by the time they get to the Public Forum, but nobody dares to say "BOO". Maybe it's because they have noted that anyone who dares to question the great man is kicked out of the Forum with no refund. They see him as a "miracle worker" who in their eyes can do no wrong. As far as I am aware...The last "miracle worker" died over 2000 years ago So saying...there are some similarities between Ellis and his CFC Disciples and Jesus and his Disciples ... One could actually walk on water and the other just tells everyone that he can. I know Keith...I know...Bad Oz

"wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"...leastwise that's what it means in Australia but obviously not in the USA. This was posted in the Private section of "The Forum that Cannot be Named" June 17, 2017 at 6:04 am#4815REPLY Moderator I just got back from a Tunica trip. I’m finding that we are usually better off to go to OTB4L in very strong OTB4L shoes as well as S40 in strong S40 shoes (very high 1s and 2s). But in Streak, including Repeat, TB4L and SS shoes, we are usually better off sticking with ANB. At Gold Strike in Tunica MS, I played S40, OTB4L, and ANB. I’m conducting a little experiment to see how I would have done playing ONLY ANB. The way I played them I made 62 units. The question is, how would I have ended up playing only ANB in every shoe regardless??? – like I did in Vegas. As soon as I can, I’ll post the shoes. Moderator 1 played 13 shoes this Gold Strike trip. Most of them I played ANB but not all. Sometimes, early in the morning, I had to open the table myself. GS has an every hand rule so I needed an every hand system like S40 or OTB4L. And sometimes I entered mid shoe when S40 or OTB4L was obvious. I won 62 units in 13 shoes. Maths was never my strong point but I'm pretty sure that equates to 4.8 units/shoe A funny thing happened by the time this info was posted on The Public Forum. Things can change when you are trying to flog off a system to the terminally gullible. Posted on June 21, 2017, 6:07 pm By casinoforum.club Tunica, MS ANB Trip Report! All 13 actual casino score cards are posted on the Private Baccarat Forum in the thread ANB Review and Discussion. Total units won: 130...Hmm...Units won has increased rather substantially from 62 to 130 I averaged 10 units per shoe. Hmm...another increase on the original figure of 4.8 per shoe...These were not all full shoes. Sometimes I started mid shoe and sometimes I quit early because I hit my stop win. I played 2 systems only: ANB and ANB switch to OTB4L in obvious OTB4L shoes. OOPS...You forgot S40...LOL... I played S40, OTB4L, and ANB Your manual tells you how to know. I switched to OTB4L only in shoes starting with a confirmed 2, or a 1,2. Both of these systems are fully explained in the Final Word Manual available right now. Don't forget S40...LOL Look folks this is by far the best way to play Baccarat ever conceived by anyone in the entire history of the game. Full shoes are averaging 14 units per shoe!...err...OK...You admit to only making 4.8 per shoe before someone fudged the figures but you still claim that anyone who walks in off the street will after 2 hours of study, average three times what the self confessed "Greatest Player in the History of Baccarat" made...Pull my other leg...It plays "Jingle Bells" In Australia, you go to jail for this shit...It is out and out "FRAUD"...attempting to gain money by deception. Until I saw this flagrant alteration of the facts/scam...I was thinking that referring to Carlos as an "outside source" was right up there...LOL...remember this golden moment... ANB casino test results – 68 shoes. Won 61 shoes. Lost 7 shoes. Outside source (Carlos...LMFAO)playing only ANB strictly by the 6 rules and starting every shoe at play #2. Average on winning shoes is 17.36. on the 7 losing shoes is -11. Overallaverage for 68 shoes is 14.47 units per shoe.Average Calling Carlos an "Outside source" is deception again of the highest order... The only thing Carlos has ever been outside is "He who must be adored's" bedroom door. Carlos...the same little sleaze who managed to produce similarly unrealistic figures for the much vaunted and now discredited MvD System while at the same time coming onto this site scamming every half decent player trying to find a system that actually wins...LOL Information, deliberately misrepresented to indicate that ANB shoes were played in an actual Casino when they were played on paper only with the benefit of seeing the whole shoe... THIS IS WRONG...THIS IS OUTRIGHT FRAUD...AND YES!...OZ is PISSED OFF! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED...STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM SCAMSTERS OFFERING YOU THE WORLD ...IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE...IT USUALLY IS. You can beat this game but it takes time and hard work...There is no easy fix...no shortcut...but all the information you need to succeed is available on this Site...together with "Stats for Profit"...arguably the best Baccarat Practice Tool on the net. Your call...

YEP...Thanks Joe for dropping Old Oz right in the shit...LOL But the truth is that I have so much respect for you and Norm (not to mention gratitude) that I won't even consider going against Norm's wishes. As both of you have said previously...The information is available on BTC and if you want it bad enough...you will find it. Loyalty is in short supply these days and I like to think that it is still part of my makeup.(along with being a cranky old fart) So saying...I hope to post another shoe very soon with an even more intensive explanation of EVERY play and hope that will get people thinking.

Hi Old Timers (& Newbies), I’ve been following the thread on FTS and I just have to chime in here. I’m not in favor of distributing FTS to the entire forum or broadcasting it all over the Internet. The reason goes back to Norm Allen. Norm worked very hard and went thru many systems on the way to developing FTS. I say this because I was there every step of the way and I know how it all went down. Norm was a very lonely man. His wife, the love of his life passed about a year before he joined BTC. In the early days of our friendship he would call me and he would be crying because he missed her so much, that’s when he turned his attention to baccarat. She had 2 Maltese dogs Chloe and Zoe. Norm promised her on her death beg that he would take care of those 2 dogs and believe me no 2 dogs have ever been cared for any better. He had always played Roulette but wanted to learn to play Baccarat. That’s when he joined BTC (late 2009). He called me and we instantly struck up a friendship. It’s safe to say we talked about every day on the phone and some days 3 or 4 times. Norm always wanted to know how to be a better player, as did I. We played live many many times in Tunica, Las Vegas and Biloxi. FTS is a compilation of what we learned together thru playing together, studying, trial and error and with the help of a few other friends. Norm and I had many discussions and sometimes disagreements. Norm usually won out. He was a persistent soul. Now to my point. Norm never made FTS available for mass distribution. He gave it to several players who he trusted and asked them not to share it. He didn’t want it posted on BTC because he didn’t want others profiting from his work or claiming it as their own idea. Ellis comes to mind here and he really pissed me off when he tried to take credit for Norm’s success. That is a lie. Norm made Norm a winner not Ellis. It also got to the point where Norm was constantly pestered by members who were too lazy to do the hard work of reading back thru the posts to find the answer to their questions (which had already been posted and answered). Too lazy to find out things for themselves, these people could never be winners. It’s why I no longer post. Norm’s words are in red below: "This is exactly why I never post how I play as I don't have rules, I just follow the shoe. I don't know if you ever heard me say that mechanical systems don't work they do not hold up" "To be honest with you it aggravates the hell out of me the way sharks come to the feeding frenzy looking for the Holy Grail and begging you to post your shoes. They are all too damn lazy to put in the time playing hundreds of shoes to figure out their own method of playing as you an others have done. I strongly believe that even if you gave most of the members a set of rules to play buy they still will not do well as they will not put in the time to practice over hundreds of shoes with the rules that are given to them. All they want is a mechanical system with a set of rules that they can go to the casino tomorrow and win and win every day after that." "I know you want to share but sometimes sharing is not in your best interest." Thanks OZ for sharing Norm's advice to you. This is why I’m not in favor of posting it up here and I hope others in possession of FTS will remember Norm’s words when he gave FTS to them. I know that others may see it differently. I also know that I risk the chance of sounding like an arrogant s.o.b, but I just had to sound off on Norm’s behalf to honor his memory. To the old timers who are experienced players: If you know someone who would benefit from FTS and promise not to share publicly, I don’t have any objections to you sharing. That’s OK as long as they promise not to post it. After all, this is how the few that have FTS got it. From Norm, myself, or others who know the score. I'm not sharing it so don't ask. Thanks and good playing, PJ