ECD

You are talking about a different McVince...right?

Then why play Baccarat?

YEP...full of friendly people...with the possible exception of me...but "HEY"...nobody is perfect...LOL

A new non-financial member of "The Forum that Cannot be Named" is seeking answers to the same questions that we all asked... Nothing peeves me more than investing in something and not getting what I paid for. Before I take that leap of faith I need you to address the following concerns. #1- I looked through your bio where it said “I never lost a shoe” at Caesars when you were talking about the secret Asian high limit room. I sincerely find that hard to believe. I also find it hard to believe that you were backed off. Casinos fly people in to play Bacc and are prepared to either win millions or lose millions to these whales. You have also said on this forum that you will get kicked out for BJ but never for bacc which contradicts this previous statement. #2- I was looking through your archives, where you were promoting LCNB and described it as beating every kind of bias. Fast forward a short time later you start promoting this MvD promising the same thing. A short time after that there is ANB where it beats everything but your OTB4L method. My question is that if you never lost a shoe at Caesars with your methods, then why change systems? I am sure that in the record setting playing at Caesars you encountered a wide variety of streaky, choppy and neutral shoes. If you never lost a shoe the way you were playing at that time shouldn’t you be teaching that? NEVER losing a shoe at Caesars is unprecedented but even more concerning, UNHEARD OF. Please let me know when you are going to Caesars again and I will meet you there. I need to see this. #3- The Final Word When I looked at your promoting of The Final Word, you said that everything you need to know would be in The Final Word. Then came LCNB, MvD, ANB. I look through the public forum and evidently there was a big delay for delivery and then the reviews were not that good. Ellis, If I join your forum I promise that I will be a pain in the “you know what” if I see things going aloof. All of my concerns that I raised were from information that I viewed on your forum. All I can say is...I wish him luck...LOL...looking forward to hearing the answers myself...LOL Poor Ellis...talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place. He will desperately be wanting to get his greedy grasping mitts on this guys money and fabricating some answers or just put the whole episode in the "Too Hard" basket and delete the post. I'm betting that he will go with the same old same old... "The Casinos keep changing the cards" excuse...

If you can't see the difference between a NON-refundable cost of $1000 to join CFC and a lousy $50 to trial the Private Forum here on BTC for one month ...then you really do have a problem...or do you think that you should be granted access to the Private Forum here with all the expertise available from Baccarat Players that really know what they are doing...for no cost? Are you a socialist?

Funny that...I see two people with no money. Scammers sure do stick together. Ellis only tolerates you because he thinks he can con you out of $1K or more. Once he realises that you aren't gonna pay him...you will be outta there quicker than a fart after a can of baked beans (which is more appropriate than I intended)

The reason you don't get insulted on the other Forum is that Ellis is desperate to get his hands on your money.($1000) He hasn't worked out yet that you don't have any, but he soon will and then it's Bye Bye JMoney BTW: Ellis doesn't only has occasional winning sessions at the Casino, so you will fit right in. Two losers talking to each other...

I keep saying I will not post on the public forum but to quote Godfather 3 "Just when I thought I was out, they bring me back in". JMoney, I promise this will be my last post to you on the public forum. I don't think I would be able to live with myself if I don't. Consider this an intervention. I don't know what you are playing and excuse my candor, don't really care how you are playing. You post this shoe online like you are bragging about your method of play. This kind of play is not only a failure of a method in the long run but goes against the grain of everything that is being taught on BTC. This forum is filled with PROVEN WINNERS who: Do not bet every hand. Do not bet negative progressions. Kick F'ing ass at Bacc. I saw one of your recent posts on CFC (Yes I monitor CFC for entertainment) where you said that Ellis makes more sense. That statement makes me think that you are amateurish at best in your Bacc skills. We at BTC train our guys to be pros. You also have a blog on gambling. I have not read it nor do I intend to. I don't know if you think that you are an authority on gambling but with how you demonstrated your play I know that you are not. I may be mistaken, but I interpreted that you played that shoe with play money? I suggest you stick to the play money and maybe one day you can be a play millionaire. If/When you start playing for real let me know. I want to watch you make a 16 unit bet with black chips. If you are learning this game and using play money, it is giving you a false sense of hope. You will fail in the long run. If you are looking to do this for a living I implore you to stop what you are doing, get into the premium area and learn the right way. There will be no short of guys ready willing and able to give you a hand. If you choose to continue your method of play, I also implore you to stop posting on this forum. You are contaminating this forum with fake play, bad play and bad ideas. I suggest you take your business exclusively with CFC. That forum is full of fake play, bad play and bad ides.

This was "PLAY" money that you were using...RIGHT?

look what I found... CFC Member...Ellis...I lost 20 units playing your infallible MvD System...will you please play this shoe for me Ellis...You should have switched to Anti-MvD (OTB4L) after the first 2iar...it's in your Manual CFC Member...err...Ellis...not meaning to be picky with you having a 160 IQ and all...and I'm grateful that you would even lower yourself to talk to we mere bottom dwelling Plebs but after two years, you still haven't finished the Manual... Ellis... CFC Member...Ellis...are you there Ellis?...Ellis... Ellis 3 weeks later...Sorry guys I had another emergency...I was playing at MGM and committed the cardinal sin ...never play when you are tired...and the next day the Casino recognised me and changed the cards and I didn't pick up on it while the guys were playing with me...but after everybody left... I absolutely creamed it...did another Table Takedown (it's becoming a habit)...Dealer was screaming at the Pit Boss that it wasn't her fault...He must be Psychic, but unfortunately, there was no one there to see it...and I couldn't wait to meet up with the guys because I had a family emergency come up and had to head home...I had car trouble...and then my computer stuffed up...and DAMMIT...someone had raided my laundry basket and nicked my dirty undies (I have my suspicions)...and to top it off...my pipes were all frozen up... CFC Member...Your pipes froze up?...but Ellis...it's Summer... Ellis... CFC Member...Ellis?...are you there Ellis?...Hmm...must be something I said... Hmm...Just another thought for people considering paying outrageous prices for Systems that don't work on "The Forum That Cannot Be Named"...Bad enough that their whole business model is based on scamming the gullible...people who are searching desperately for a way to improve their lot in life...many who really can't afford the cost but are being fed a diet of "hope and bovine excreta"...ask yourself these questions... Why after 40 years of playing Baccarat is the seller of these so called infallible systems still playing reds and greens?... Why is he so desperate for cash that he keeps inventing new systems that don't work?... Why in his desperation does he choose to disparage the three most successful players that he still holds up as proof that his systems work by calling them "guessers?" Why are none of these successful players members of his Forum? Why are so many players on this site doing so well by simply Flat Betting with no outrageously scary Negative Progressions? Why does the "Forum that cannot be Named" charge such outrageous prices with no refund (many have tried and none have succeeded) and this Forum is a monthly subscription of a mere $50 ...owner is confident enough in his product to offer it at this piddling price knowing full well that a number will sample and decide not to stay and others will join the best Baccarat Forum on the Net. It's your choice...BTC is not for everybody and it shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg to find out. And we do manage to have a bit of fun interspersed with hard work...One of the guys posted this morning after hearing about the insults flying thick and fast from the owner of the other site... Quick question...Is the Anti-Ellis Systen available on BTC kinda like Anti-MvD...the system you have... when you need to explain why your system isn't working?... Kidding folks...This site doesn't sell systems..But this is one that just might work...You buy one of Ellis's system and bet opposite... Anyway...That's it for me...whether you choose to join BTC or not... is no skin off my nose and TBH...BTC is not for everybody...No false promises but you can become a consistent winner if you are prepared to put in the effort. My main concern is for people who maybe can't afford to be ripped off by snake oil scammers...at least think long and hard about what I've said...and if you still decide you want to run the risk..."ask about their NO REFUND" Policy...You won't like the answer...

Be great if you would at least try to get the facts right. I never questioned you defending the OP. Look at my comments again -- I'm questioning why you would read ONE post in the PUBLIC forum and conclude this was somehow a rude place. YOU are a Legacy Member with access to the private forums. YOU can see the posts there where many players post their actual results on how they are doing playing. YOU can see trip reports where I have even posted pics of winnings and reported actual results. Guess what? the OP was also a member with access to all that. He chose to never post or ask questions. But contrary to your comment, it seems he didn't get what he wanted before he left. Had he asked the question in the privacy of the forum he would have received lots of open and honest responses. My responses to him were about why it is unrealistic to expect winning players to bare all to the entire internet. He didn't get it. And clearly you didn't either. I'm sorry you decided to exit the site -- I really am. But if your shallow effort at due diligence is any indication of how you would have approached the work necessary to be successful, then perhaps it is for the best. As I said, it's not for everyone. Wish you all the best.

You are not the only one that wished you kept your comments to yourself. After your post, I KNOW you are trying to pick a fight.

Are you and w2f doing the "Good Cop...Bad Cop" thing?...LOL Prob is that you throw me into the mix and we have "Bad Cop...Ozzie Bad Cop and Good Cop"...LOL

Always the voice of reason w2f which is why you are so good at what you do away from the tables. Vinnie gets me fired up and you calm me back down...kinda like double strength Valium...LOL Keith is basically a good person trying to suss out a business plan that will work for the members and encourage new members as well. BTC is, in fact, the antithesis of every other Paid membership Gambling site that I know of in that it isn't the site owner doing the scamming but temporary members scamming the owner and the members that have put all this info together. I don't know the answer myself which is why I stay away from the discussion. As for Scalded Cat...He says that he is in his 50's and he doesn't put up with BS anymore...(some might call it "chip on the shoulder" syndrome) but I would never be so bold...cough...cough... Anyway...I've put a lot of time and effort into this Forum (like many others) and I feel that I've earned the right to be a little protective about the information available to full members and if people don't like my attitude..."Tell someone who cares"...This Forum is about improving the play and thereby the lifestyle of those that want to give back as well. If you don't wanna do that...it's your loss because downloading the info and walking away won't do it for you. The good side for me is that I'm feeling like I dodged a bullet. I value my privacy greatly but was looking at breaking my Golden Rule on the previous occasion when SC was on the Forum because of his situation. Hard not to respect a guy that is battling adversity and I was looking at a personal tuition gig at his home casino. I don't do that shit and despite some nagging doubts...this would have been my one and only exception. Then he disappeared and I let it drop and now this... Memo to SC: You won the Lottery son and tore up the ticket...and "YES"...I am that good...

If you actually are interested in the club, I would wonder why you choose to judge it by one thread on the public forum when as a legacy member you already have access to so much more? The public forum is not a good place to get reliable information, or to even begin to understand what the club is all about and it provides no useful purpose to the club members. It has become a place where any character can show up and post their latest greatest way to make money (i.e. JMoney), or expose their endless theories about what makes them awesome (i.e. alrelax aka Glen aka 8orbetter). It is the internet after all -- where anyone can say whatever they want. It is up to each reader to judge who's real and who's not and to make a decision for themselves on what to believe. Like Oz, I also "don't care much either way." Just so you don't interpret my words to fit your dialogue and agenda, let me explain. YOU have to decide what you want to do. Join the club? That would be great and what you get out of it will be based on what you put into it and the members will do more than you can imagine to help you succeed. Don't join? That's fine too -- after all, its not for everyone. Maybe you can pick up some tips from the internet trolls here on the public forum. I do wish you luck with that. If the public forum ever does go away, we can also refer you to a couple others you might want to check out -- no shortage of internet gurus ready to sell you the holy grail. If you did join the club, what should you expect? There is no guru with decades of baccarat experience to sell you something -- just other members with the same goals and objectives as you. The members are not there to TELL you what to do. Instead, they are there to help YOU figure out what works best for YOU. Sure, the members are full of ideas, tips and tricks. They are there to help guide you down the path, and support you all the way. But only YOU can know for sure what’s the best way to play for YOU. But not everyone is looking for this -- and that's OK too.

I vowed not to post on the public forum but I am going to break it this one time. You are just adding this stuff on to pick a fight with people. I agree with you that the payment options are flawed and there are discussions to fix the flaw. I also agree that he did not do anything illegal, but he did something improper. If you are going to do something like pay the initial fee, extract all the info, stop payment and still remain on the public free forum, that is the equivalent as poaching for the information and that person is lower than whale shit in my eyes. Keith set up the payment option as a way to make it easy on new members trusting that once they saw the vast information on the private section they would stay. I think Keith underestimated the amount of "Poachers" that are out there. Then to add insult to injury the "Poachers" get access to the free stuff. Keith is a very nice guy trying to make a buck and unfortunately nice guys finish last. Guys like me that have done the Master Classes for the private membership don't get paid. They put the time in to prepare their class to help another guy out. Forgive us if we seem a little guarded from the guys that troll this public forum. As for you, I am in a similar position as you. I am newly retired with a pension that is playing full time. If you continue to want to pick a fight regarding this, pick it with me, I'm you're Huckleberry.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that by his own admission the guy in question joined up for a few months...downloaded all the info he could and then scarpered. That is wrong on so many levels. He is a leaner... not a lifter...not interested in giving back but interested in getting tips from others of his ilk. Anyone who thinks that is all that is needed is in for a rude shock. The benefits of BTC come from shared ideas between members. Your choice...I don't much care either way.

OP should consider posting it on betselection as well.

Yeah...I did...

That was GOLD!

Why is this news?

I'm sorry you completely mis-understood comments which, as I said, were directed to the masses. Glad to hear you are doing well, we are all on the same side!

I didn't take your comments as negative at all. Just wanted to explain to the countless people who come on expecting to see lots of information on the public forum why that is an unrealistic expectation. Talking with other players is the path to success, and if that is what you are interested in, why are you no longer a member where you talk with all the other players/members? You are winning, but the cost of membership is too great? Sorry, but that's just complete BS. You will never make it by downloading the old systems from the site and then disappearing. The systems, BY THEMSELVES, don't work in the long run -- just like every other mechanical system available on the internet. As I mentioned, the club may not be for everyone -- only for those who truly value what the club can do for their success.

Great comment from one helluva player on the public forum. There is so much information in the private area that Keith's server should be overloaded with applications to get in. I am declaring that this will be my last addition to the private forum and I would ask all of the members of the private area to stop posting on the public area. This is not welfare, you should not be able to extract information for free.

It is an unrealistic expectation that you will see what you are looking for on this public forum. This is the internet. Anyone can show up, call themselves anything they want, and then say anything they want as though it was a fact. Why would a successful member of this "club" expose themselves and the details of how and where they play to the whole of the internet? There are many players here who are successful, and it actually goes far beyond the "4-5" you refer to. I am aware of many, many others who choose to rarely post, but they are winning REGULARLY and exercising their right to do so quietly. Some us choose to share a bit more with the intent of helping other "club" members find their own path to success. None of the members of this "club" have a financial interest in BTC or any incentive to "grow" the membership, other than to draw in more like-minded players who will contribute. There are no systems for sale here, or some alleged "guru" selling his knowledge and/or trying to feed his ego. If it was up to me, there would be no public forum. It is a relic from the past when BTC WAS about selling systems and needing to always generate more and more paying members. But its not up to me and if the owner sees value in a "public" discussion to help identify those who might be productive and contributing members of the club, well that is his prerogative. Heck, maybe membership should be by invitation only. What's in the club is years and years of baccarat playing methods, discussion boards, incredible ideas from so many talented members from years past and current, access to a tool which contains >258,000 actual casino shoes (with members adding more all the time) which allows you to play any shoe one hand at a time, or to run various statistics on a single shoe or any grouping of shoes of your choice, members sharing what they are currently doing in actual casinos -- how they play, where they see opportunities to better attack this game. Wow. We need an application for membership where the prospective member explains why they should be allowed access to all of this. It's OK that not everyone makes the cut. What about you @kino, how would you fill out that application?