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# NOR Sample Game Questions

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Query:

In Sample Game 5 (see: http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2198&d=1322938816) using the F system, I see you're using Mode 2 (staying for two losses - lost two and switched, lost on 3rd lost and switched back) on OTR starting from Play 26. This I understand.

Then on Play 37 are you using Mode 3 (staying for 3 losses - lost two and won on the third) on OTR starting from play 37? and then for the rest of the shoe when OTR is played... you stuck with Mode 3, why is this? is it because of SS? OR Count? F4?

The rest of the example games 1,2,3,4 and 6... I understand...

Will start practicing using a live shoe I have with 8 decks randomly shuffled by myself? ;-)

Peter

Edited by PeterUK
removed boldness
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In Sample Game 5 using the F system, I see you're using Mode 2 (staying for two losses -

lost two and switched, lost on 3rd lost and switched back) on OTR starting from Play 26. This I understand.

Then on Play 37 are you using Mode 3 (staying for 3 losses - lost two and won on the third)

on OTR starting from play 37? and then for the rest of the shoe when OTR is played...

you stuck with Mode 3, why is this? is it because of SS? OR Count? F4?

No, it is because of the 3rd bet rule in your manual.

This is why you need to keep going back and rereading your manual as you learn.

It begins making more and more sense until before long the whole thing makes perfect sense - every sentence.

First, note that at play 22, I bet 1 instead of 3. This is because We were being ultra conservative back in those days.

Today, esp that late in the shoe, we would bet 3. We learned that there is such a thing as being too conservative -

to the point that you give yourself virtually no chance of winning.

Also, I started that shoe in Mode 2. Today we usually start F in Mode 3 because mode 3

not only beats the sporadic 1's, it also beats the very common sporadic 2s.

We think this is worth the extra risk of starting in Mode 3.

But to your question: I lost the 3rd bet at play 28. This changes me to Mode 3.

So at play 39 (the next time mode comes up) (the next time a 3 bet comes up) I play Mode 3. I never lose a 3rd bet

again so I'm in mode 3 for the rest of the shoe. No mystery here - just basic 3rd bet rule.

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Thanks Ellis...

So the 3rd rule applies after the 3rd loss in OTR... For example, if I win on the third I stay on the current mode i.e. M2... if I lose on the third I'll switch to the other mode to M3 from M2...

It's making sense... - been reading the manual several times and moving on to applying the systems and practice, practice and practice :-)

Peter

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Thanks Ellis...

So the 3rd rule applies after the 3rd loss in OTR... For example, if I win on the third I stay on the current

mode i.e. M2... if I lose on the third I'll switch to the other mode to M3 from M2...

It's making sense... - been reading the manual several times and moving on to applying the systems

and practice, practice and practice :-)

Peter

Correct! - except for your opening statement. I don't think you meant to say OTR.

Your 3rd bet is always the bet after 2 losses iar following a win.

When betting a 123 4 prog your 3rd bet is always a 3 bet due. But betting U1D2 or U1D1, your 3rd bet might not be a 3.

That is why we say 3rd bet rather than 3 bet.

The 3rd bet rule applies to all 3 NOR systems exactly the same way. And with all 3 NOR systems, when you lose the first

2 bets iar it is ALWAYS against a run. (ATR)

BTW, I can see by your questions and comments that the light bulbs are beginning to turn on for you

just as I told you they would.

And about that Probac guy: We all have to have a little fun now and then.

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Hi Ellis,

I was having a bit if fun with the ProBac guy too... As it's a public area and flushing out his personality... he sounded like a real novice, not enough substance as a self-proclaiming teacher... ;-)

Yes, I understand the 3rd loss bet in the system now...

And yes the lightbulbs are turning on quite quickly once I find the resources and information I need, comparing and putting two an two together... The hacker who broke the links to files and pictures didn't help but we got there eventually with support from the members here, couldn't do it without them...

It's all simple and logical once you get your head around it... I think in pictures... Once we get the terminologies explained/defined the systems will get much easier to understand and implement...

Can you explain the 'iar' meaning? When I see this I'm thinking or tier's or level... Overall I'm starting to get use to most of the terminologies used here ;-)

Thanks,

Peter

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Hi Ellis,

I was having a bit if fun with the ProBac guy too... As it's a public area and flushing out his personality... he sounded like a real novice, not enough substance as a self-proclaiming teacher... ;-)

Yes, I understand the 3rd loss bet in the system now...

And yes the lightbulbs are turning on quite quickly once I find the resources and information I need, comparing and putting two an two together... The hacker who broke the links to files and pictures didn't help but we got there eventually with support from the members here, couldn't do it without them...

It's all simple and logical once you get your head around it... I think in pictures... Once we get the terminologies explained/defined the systems will get much easier to understand and implement...

Can you explain the 'iar' meaning? When I see this I'm thinking or tier's or level... Overall I'm starting to get use to most of the terminologies used here ;-)

Thanks,

Peter

iar is extremely complex! It means "in a row".

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Sorry, It just seems to be my morning for having a little fun.

I watched the film in your in baskets on the MIT BJ teams this morning.

This is by far the best, most accurate and most insightful report on the MIT Teams to date.

It gave me fond memories. It gives you some insight into how I got started and where I'm coming from.

No, I wasn't an MIT team member but Edward O Thorp was my hero too and I hung on every word of his book Beat The Dealer -

certainly the most infamous gaming book ever written. But Thorp had a great platform - MIT.

I had no platform whatsoever.

But I immediately saw the flaw in the Thorp / MIT Team as well as the Thorp / Kenny Uston Team approach.

They failed to recognize and react to natural game induced clumping.

They learned on single deck BJ. Clumping is not obvious in single deck so it is no wonder that they missed it entirely.

Thorp never understood why, while he had calculated a 6% PA for his Basic Strategy, actual casino play produced closer to a 0 PA.

They had to add card counting to have any advantage at all.

But this omission eventually caused the downfall of the MIT teams and, in my opinion, the death of Kenny Uston.

Thorp's calculations were always correct BUT he calculated based on random cards. WRONG!

Clumping reduced the PA of perfect BS player from 6% to 0 in single deck.

But as you add decks and or players to the game, clumping increases geometrically

and clumping destroys the hit rate of Basic Strategy.

The MIT Teams were dead wrong to fill tables with their players and insist on perfect Basic Strategy!

Clumping must be recognized and played.

Often the highness or lowness of the cards running overrides the opinion of pure Basic Strategy.

The more players in the game and the more mature the cards, the more this is true.

I believe that if the MIT Teams had understood this they would still be in business today.

I tried to explain this to Kenny Uston BUT...

You can't explain anything to a guy who already knows EVERYTHING!

He lost, I won.

The MIT Teams eventually lost, I won.

End of story, unfortunately.

THAT is the disadvantage of having no platform, God help us all.

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Hi Ellis,

I was having a bit if fun with the ProBac guy too... As it's a public area and flushing out his personality... he sounded like a real novice, not enough substance as a self-proclaiming teacher... ;-)

Yes, I understand the 3rd loss bet in the system now...

And yes the lightbulbs are turning on quite quickly once I find the resources and information I need, comparing and putting two an two together... The hacker who broke the links to files and pictures didn't help but we got there eventually with support from the members here, couldn't do it without them...

It's all simple and logical once you get your head around it... I think in pictures... Once we get the terminologies explained/defined the systems will get much easier to understand and implement...

Can you explain the 'iar' meaning? When I see this I'm thinking or tier's or level... Overall I'm starting to get use to most of the terminologies used here ;-)

Thanks,

Peter

Hi Peter this might help.

http://www.atochome.com/atochome1/Acronyms.htm

NormA

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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hay Ellis,then there was nikola tesla,he was infamous,

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where do u find this sample games i cant find it ...need help thx

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hay Ellis,then there was nikola tesla,he was infamous,

I hate your user name! It makes me think you want your moneybac!

But right, Tesla was ignored and ridiculed while he was alive. But today he is herald as the father

of electrical transmission throughout the world. Had he just lived a little longer we would have wireless

transmission today. No wires, no telephone poles. He was on the verge of solving that problem.

But nobody would listen. He was too far ahead of the rest of the world. Still today Electrical Engineers

are trying to get up to where Tesla was back in the 19th century. The problem with Tesla was,

like many 200 IQs, he simply couldn't talk to people on their level.

Did you know that Einstein couldn't tie his shoes and his parents very nearly sent him to a home for the retarded?

But unlike Tesla, Einstein could talk to anyone on their level and was therefore very popular among his students and

with everyone he met. I think the kids liked his wild hair.

We had a 200 IQ kid in my high school class at CBA. This kid could build an Abomb in 1957

and we were all just a little afraid he just might do that. Nobody could communicate with him.

The state championship football game was coming up one Friday night.

So I asked Michael (one of the few times anybody ever spoke to him) if he was going to the game?

He replied, and I still remember every word, "I don't see any point in going to watch boys maul each other."

That was the end of that conversation.

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Thanks NormA,

Discovered this sometime during the week... Missing some acronyms/terms...

Peter

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Excellent post Norm! We had a pretty good glossary of terms at one time which seems to have vanished.

But I intend to provide a new glossary within my thread "NOR Components Explained" and we can add to

that glossary as we go. That way it will always be easy to find.

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• 1 year later...

I have a question about the sample games. In game 2, 4 and 6 what is the advanced betting that is used?

And what does U1D1, U1D2, U1D2M2 etc mean? There isn't an explanation in the NOR manual.

Thanks,

7779311

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• Users
I have a question about the sample games. In game 2, 4 and 6 what is the advanced betting that is used?

And what does U1D1, U1D2, U1D2M2 etc mean? There isn't an explanation in the NOR manual.

Thanks,

7779311

U1D1 simply means Up 1 unit as you lose and D1 unit as you win ...very aggressive form of betting

U1D1M2 means means Up 1 unit as you lose and D1 unit as you win with a Mandatory 2 which means that your lowest bet never goes below 2 Units... extremely aggressive form of betting and should be saved for either when you are well ahead or you are killing the shoe

U1D2 simply means that you raise your bet by 1 Unit (U1) as you lose and reduce it by 2 Units (D2)with each win fairly safe method and favoured by most conservative players

U1D2M2 means as above...but again with a Mandatory 2 (M2) bet which means that you never go below 2 units ...a semi aggressive method but always remember that you can eliminate the M2 if things start to go haywire

Hope this helps

Oz

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Great explanations!

Thank You Sir!

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
I hate your user name! It makes me think you want your moneybac!

But right, Tesla was ignored and ridiculed while he was alive. But today he is herald as the father

of electrical transmission throughout the world. Had he just lived a little longer we would have wireless

transmission today. No wires, no telephone poles. He was on the verge of solving that problem.

But nobody would listen. He was too far ahead of the rest of the world. Still today Electrical Engineers

are trying to get up to where Tesla was back in the 19th century. The problem with Tesla was,

like many 200 IQs, he simply couldn't talk to people on their level.

Did you know that Einstein couldn't tie his shoes and his parents very nearly sent him to a home for the retarded?

But unlike Tesla, Einstein could talk to anyone on their level and was therefore very popular among his students and

with everyone he met. I think the kids liked his wild hair.

We had a 200 IQ kid in my high school class at CBA. This kid could build an Abomb in 1957

and we were all just a little afraid he just might do that. Nobody could communicate with him.

The state championship football game was coming up one Friday night.

So I asked Michael (one of the few times anybody ever spoke to him) if he was going to the game?

He replied, and I still remember every word, "I don't see any point in going to watch boys maul each other."

That was the end of that conversation.

Sounds like Mikey was ahead of his time as well...

UFC now a " sanctioned" betting option at sportsbooks worldwide...

Go figure...

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• Users

Rousey vs Zingano today kachatz1 !! Who are you betting on!

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