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Team,

Keith is coming to my house the 1st of the month to do Webinars. One of the great things about Webinars is they are a whole lot easier to attend - especially for our many foreign members.

Also, they are cheaper for us to produce so we can price them considerably less than seminars.

We are thinking the 4D

Sure, we can do that up to what is finalized at this point.

But I'm thinking there are other subjects you would like to see us do.

For instance:

  • The new game start rule
  • The 3rd bet Rule
  • Modes
  • System F
  • Mode 1 for S40
  • U1D1M2
  • NOR+ Basics
  • System selection
  • Reading horizontal tote boards
  • The Fibonaci
  • 221

And perhaps many others

What I would like to know is what YOU would like to know.

What subjects would you like to attend???

Please reply right here on this thread.

You are the boss on this forum. We'll do whatever you want us to do. We just work here.

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Hi Ellis

One the list you provided: I would vote for:

The new game start rule (especially how to apply it to Z's)

Mode 1 for S40

System Selection

Reading Horizontal Tote Boards

Also I have a question. Keith mentioned, on another thread, you will be having the next seminar in Las Vegas after the first of year. Will that include a group play session similiar to the one you did in Bethlehem, in addtion to the seminar, or will it just be the type of informal get togethers that have occurred after the other LV seminars? My vote would be for a two part weekend, one day for the teaching seminar and a second, separate day for group play only. You and Keith can give it some thought.

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hey ellis real nice playing next to you @ the sands.i would like to see a few things.i feel if this bac club is going to survive we need more members to be involved.i have been attending pretty much everything from las vegas to the webinars!i would like to see more people in attendance.maybe you could try an end of the year special price of $99 for this webinar.this is just my opinion,and whatever the price is deal me in!thanks

4D,3rd bet rule,modes,new game start rule,s 40 how about a vegas date and time for feb 2014,be careful of the chinese new year.

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Hi Ellis

One the list you provided: I would vote for:

The new game start rule (especially how to apply it to Z's)

Mode 1 for S40

System Selection

Reading Horizontal Tote Boards

Also I have a question. Keith mentioned, on another thread, you will be having the next seminar in Las Vegas after the first of year. Will that include a group play session similiar to the one you did in Bethlehem, in addtion to the seminar, or will it just be the type of informal get togethers that have occurred after the other LV seminars? My vote would be for a two part weekend, one day for the teaching seminar and a second, separate day for group play only. You and Keith can give it some thought.

Well, I hope it's not "similiar to the one you did in Bethlehem" because we can do a whole lot better than that and usually do.

But yes, that would be an excellent schedule and a whole lot better than trying to play on a Saturday night. Any pro avoids Sat night

like the plague. No table selection, no seats, and casinos are geared up for Sat. night. Sunday morning we are more refreshed, there

are plenty of open tables and seats and the casino lets their guard down. It makes a whole lot more sense to have the play session

Sunday rather than Sat night. I like that a lot!

And I also like your webinar topics "(especially how to apply it to Z's)". Yes, the new rule can be applied to ZZs and I'm working on

that as we speak. The OR count can also tell us not only when to bet our 3 on P and when to bet it on B but also when to skip the

3 bet altogether. And I think I can be ready with all that by the time Keith gets here. I don't think any of us, including me, are yet

aware of just how big a deal this new starting rule really is. But it makes fantastic mathematical sense and I think we are looking

at a huge improvement to our shoe win ratio. There are times when the OR count should override the 3rd bet rule for mode selection throughout the entire shoe. It is a very important breakthrough for us and everyone needs to get it exactly right in their play.

Keith's schedule at my house will be limited this trip and we can only do so much so I'm thinking we should probably concentrate on

the new shoe start rule which can also give us better info on which system to start with right along with which mode.

But, if we can get enough members to participate in this Webinar teaching concept, I will have no qualms about making longer trips to Keith's house to do more Webinars. It is a great low cost way to teach and to learn. It makes a lot of sense.

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hey ellis real nice playing next to you @ the sands.i would like to see a few things.i feel if this bac club is going to survive we need more members to be involved.i have been attending pretty much everything from las vegas to the webinars!i would like to see more people in attendance.maybe you could try an end of the year special price of $99 for this webinar.this is just my opinion,and whatever the price is deal me in!thanks

4D,3rd bet rule,modes,new game start rule,s 40 how about a vegas date and time for feb 2014,be careful of the chinese new year.

Well, I think a $99 Webinar price is feasible if we can get enough attendees. It's sort of a chicken or egg first thing. You are waiting

for me to get the price down and I'm waiting for you to sign up. So, let's get together on this. You guys sign up and trust me to get the price down. I'll shoot for $99. I think working together we can get there.

Let's start with a full explanation of this new game start concept. There is a lot to it. Like everything, it is not as simple as it first appears.

There are some tricks to it. But I think it is the single thing that can have the most effect on your shoe win ratio. From a Webinar cost standpoint, I think this will pay for itself the quickest - perhaps in the first shoe you play it. It worked in all 7 of the Sands shoes. It also

worked in 68% of the 20 shoes way2fast tested and he only had PART of the rule. I'm telling you we are looking at somethingb big here!

Sign up for the Webinar in droves. If you do your part I'll get the price down. Don't worry about your scheduling conflicts. Once we've made the Webinar I'm pretty sure we can avoid all possible personal scheduling conflicts. That is one of the advantages.

You guys sign up and I'll do the rest. Does everybody know where and how to sign up???

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I am interested ,but it is unlikely that I will be able to attend a Saturday morning/afternoon session.

I would be interested in buying the tape., or better still, a transcript of the tape .

Wendel

N.B. Please ignore the reference to professional blackjack player on my description. It must have been added

by someone who is misinformed as to the level of my blackjack play instead of NOR Baccarat Player.

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ellis,put up the on-line registration and i'll be the first to sign up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LETS GET THIS BALL ROLLIN,DEAL ME IN

Whoa!!! Slowdown buddy, Ellis's needs more time to count up hus winnings from his last trip to the casino!

Yes I'm interested as well with a little bit less enthusiasm

CC

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Hi Ellis

Thanks for your reply. I just signed up for the webinar and I think that your idea of limiting it to the new start rule(s) is a good one. It sounds like, from your posts, that there is more to it than the information that has been posted so far. Also, may I suggest you include System Selection as a secondary topic since it seems to me that the two are somewhat interrelated.

Also, for me, I absolutely love your Sat/Sun idea for the next Las Vegas seminar. I would definitely sign up for both days (seminar & group play) either individually or as a package deal.

Also, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for everything that you have taught me (and others.) I do not post much, but I can tell you that after years of floundering (mostly with the Benson systems) the first NOR seminar I attended in 2011 was a revelation. Since then I have been able to take my Baccarat play to levels I only dreamed about and with a confidence I never had before. It's been hard work and the learning never stops, but NOR, and it's variations, has been worth it to me. For that, I will be eternally grateful.

Thanks again.

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Let's start with a full explanation of this new game start concept. There is a lot to it. Like everything, it is not as simple as it first appears.

There are some tricks to it. But I think it is the single thing that can have the most effect on your shoe win ratio.

I think I'm probably the only player on here that uses the horizontal tote board and not a vertical scorecard when I play. For that reason, I've always just watched the events to decide my play and never used an O/R count. For this new game start - is it required to use an O/R count or can you achieve the same result by watching the events? If so, is that something you will go over?

I remember reading somewhere that you were also talking about using an O/R count to replace the 3rd bet rule. So should I start keeping an O/R count when I play so I can be up to speed with these new concepts?

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Hi Ellis

Thanks for your reply. I just signed up for the webinar and I think that your idea of limiting it to the new start rule(s) is a good one. It sounds like, from your posts, that there is more to it than the information that has been posted so far. Also, may I suggest you include System Selection as a secondary topic since it seems to me that the two are somewhat interrelated.

Also, for me, I absolutely love your Sat/Sun idea for the next Las Vegas seminar. I would definitely sign up for both days (seminar & group play) either individually or as a package deal.

Also, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for everything that you have taught me (and others.) I do not post much, but I can tell you that after years of floundering (mostly with the Benson systems) the first NOR seminar I attended in 2011 was a revelation. Since then I have been able to take my Baccarat play to levels I only dreamed about and with a confidence I never had before. It's been hard work and the learning never stops, but NOR, and it's variations, has been worth it to me. For that, I will be eternally grateful.

Thanks again.

Hmm, "Benson" - "floundering". The two are synonymous.

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Whoa!!! Slowdown buddy, Ellis's needs more time to count up hus winnings from his last trip to the casino!

Yes I'm interested as well with a little bit less enthusiasm

CC

Well, that's because you've been concentrating on the 4D lately - Which is fine.

BUT this new game start concept is a big thing!

Consider this:

No matter what system you are playing, success vs failure depends entirely on your first 3 bet.

That is why our 2Hi players are the most successful of us. They symply avoid the whole 3 bet situation

because they have learned that our hit rate on that first 3 bet is not so good. In fact it is lousy.

I'm thinking it is actually less than 50% the way we currently do it.

What do we already know when we are playing S40??? That the shoe is choppy. Otherwise we wouldn't be playing S40.

So how are we currently deciding where to bet the first 3 bet? We arbitrarily say play it M2. THAT is our freaking STREAK mode.

So we end up making that critical bet backwards. We are arbitrarily betting it streak mode in a choppy shoe. See that? That

is pure stupid!

But what if the 2Hi boys KNEW for CERTAIN when our 3 bet has a better than 50% chance of winning vs when it doesn't.

Sure, sometimes we SHOULD be reverting back to a 1 bet or even avoiding the bet altogether. That would be when the OR count

is at zero or 1 and it often is. But sometimes it is as 2 or more. And the higher the count in either direction, the better our odds on

the 3 bet. They can even gage their chance of success.

I'm thinking that if we show them when there is good reason to make the 3 bet, they will make it.

Just as when there is no good reason theyb can revert back to 1 or even 0. See that?

Before we had no way to qualify the 3 bet good or bad.

Now we have a good mathematical way to determine the odds of the 3 bet before we make it.

So NOW we not only know WHERE to bet it, we also know WHEN to bet it and when NOT to bet it.

AND it is the most crucial bet in all of Baccarat. It literally decides our fate.

THAT is what this Webinar needs to be about.

It will get rid of a lot of those pesky 8 play losing shoes. And it will turn a lot of them into big winners

just as it did in the Sands shoes.

Sure, we could show you how to do the 4 counts in the 4D but we can't go much further than that.

I think we need to concentrate on the new game start concept at this point. It's big money and we already KNOW how to do it.

The 4D we are still learning how to do it. Lets wait until we KNOW how to do it. Sure, it will be big money too at some point.

But we aren't at that point - yet.

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I think I'm probably the only player on here that uses the horizontal tote board and not a vertical scorecard when I play. For that reason, I've always just watched the events to decide my play and never used an O/R count. For this new game start - is it required to use an O/R count or can you achieve the same result by watching the events? If so, is that something you will go over?

I remember reading somewhere that you were also talking about using an O/R count to replace the 3rd bet rule. So should I start keeping an O/R count when I play so I can be up to speed with these new concepts?

Well ztomsk, there is a lot more to your question than meets the eye.

EVERYBODY at the table is studying a horizontal tote board to make their bet. That is what DOESN't work! The impossibly high casino

profits prove that beyond all doubt.

I actually much prefer the horizontal tote board because the whole shoe thus far is right there in front of you.

Plus it notes the PB disparity which is another big plus.

I ignore naturals and ties because they are meaningless.

The horizontal board is ONE perspective of the game.

A vertical card is a completely different perspective of the game.

BOTH are important.

So your BEST situation in Bac is a horizontal tote board together with a vertical score card.

There is no point in having a horizontal card because it is just a copy of the tote board. You already have that.

Sure, you COULD figure out the OR count on a horizontal board.

It is the first liners vs all the other liners totaled. But we don't have all day.

You can do an OR count on a vertical card in split seonds or simply maintain it in its own column.

That is more important information than all the information on a horizontal board put together.

And with the new game start concept the OR count now becomes far more important.

Sure, you can do an OR count in your head but why trust your head - especially in the middle of a high stakes Baccarat game???

A vertical card is a simple thing but it tells you everything the horizontal boards don't tell you.

Think about it - If horizontal boards actually helped players, casinos wouldn't have them.

I've been playing this game 30+ years. You've been playing it how long? That is 30 years of trial and error

determining the best way to cope with this game.

Trust me! I'm telling you the best way to do it. DON"T trust the other players. They have no idea of what they are doing.

I'll show you exactly how to do this new game start concept the easiest, simplest most accurate way. Trust me.

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You're correct Ellis, I have been busy with 4D and contributing to 4D discussion on regular basis.

I have played M2 on most of my starts except OTB4L with mode 3 and this has always been difficult for many players at the beginning of a shoe especially with immediate drawdown... Frustrating.

I certainly hope the new method will correct a lot of this, look forward to your new research results.

CC

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Sounds like I will be signing up for this as well, but one question. Will it be recorded?

As you know, I like to record the seminars so I can review them later. ( I glean a lot more the second time around). A simple audio file would be perfect I'm sure. Thanks, Chris

Yes it will be recorded and you will be able to view it later on.

You can tell the winners and honest players by how many times they admit they lost 
not by how many times they say they won.

Need Information Messenger

https://m.me/beatthecasinodotcom

司奇士

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Sounds like I will be signing up for this as well, but one question. Will it be recorded? As you know, I like to record the seminars so I can review them later. ( I glean a lot more the second time around). A simple audio file would be perfect I'm sure. Thanks, Chris

bluetri, first I apologize for crediting way2fast with a post I think you made. If so, sorry about that.

Guys bluetri is making an excellent point here! He's one of our top players so pay attention.

You know, guys still go back and reread their NBJ manual 20 years after they bought it. And they tell me they still get more out

of it each reading.

The same is true of your NOR manual. Most of the questions asked here were clearly spelled out in your manual.

And the same is true of webinars and important how to posts.

You get better at this game forever. Nobody is as good as they can be.

And a good way to get better is to keep information and keep reviewing it.

Look, sign up for the Webinar. Then you can watch it or review it any time that is convenient for you.

You don't have to go by our schedule. Then you can watch it and/or review it anytime you want at the lowest price.

Sure, you can wait and get it later BUT at a MUCH higher price.

We want this webinar program to be a great success. The more you like this program the more we will do. It is a

cheap but good way of teaching - and learning. But we can only measure success in sign ups.

Sign up! Don't worry your head about conflicts. You can watch it anytime you want IF you signed up.

Help us out a little here.

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Trust me! I'm telling you the best way to do it. DON"T trust the other players. They have no idea of what they are doing.

I do trust u Ellis. One of the reasons I joined the forum. I knew I would catch some flack for that saying I don't use a scorecard. But I know you're here to help and want to give us all the tools possible.

I didn't mean I use the tote board like the other players. I just meant I follow that for my bet placement. I still use NOR+ rules by the book... just haven't been keeping a count while I do it. But I realize I am handicapping myself... I'll start keeping track of counts. Look forward to the new start game...

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