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The Way It Was

If you all would go back into the forum about 4 or 5 years and read some of the post you will see The Way It Was back then.

Back then when we played a shoe we would scan and post our scorecard the way we played it, and others would critique and point out the mistakes, then scan it and re post it.

You will find the see hundreds of SC's that were posted.

This was the best way to learn as others would also see the mistakes and learn from them, otherwise how would somebody know how to help you if they don’t know what you were doing.

All the members would see this and benefit by each other’s scorecards and mistakes and critiques.

Don’t be ashamed or embarrassed to post your score on the way you played it, this is how we learn by our mistakes.

Also when someone had a tough shoe that they wanted the members to play for them, they would put the shoe on a SC and post it, not just put up the shoe as a shortcut and expect others to put it on the scorecard in order to play it for them. (Just common courtesy)

Even many of your questions could be put on a scorecard scanned and posted.

This visual way of learning was far better than what I see today with hand-by-hand verbal description.

Look what happened recently when Jerry posted his scorecard, look at the interest and participation it created and the benefit that came from it.

I truly believe that if everyone (including our teacher) would start doing things the way we did back then you would all learn much more and faster, and get so much more out of this forum.

Please don’t tell me what I heard dozens of times in the past, which is my scanner don’t work or I don’t have a scanner or I don’t know how to post a SC on the forum.

Scanners are cheap you can get a good scanner for around $50 that’s about three or four net bets at the table.

As for not knowing how to post a SC, I could tell you that I am probably the most computer illiterate person on this form, if I was able to learn how to do it I am sure most of you can also.

I am sure there are some computer geeks on this forum that can give detailed instructions as to how to post a SC.

I hope I did not come on too strong with this post, but it is the best and fastest way to learn it’s the way I and many others have learned back then “The Way It Wasâ€.

I am sure that some of the old timers will chime here and attest to what I am saying.

Even to this day there is a small group of us that exchange SC on a weekly basis.

Okay guys and gals I could lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink the ball is now in your court.

  • Like 1

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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This post makes a lot of sense to me... My scanner went to God eons ago...I'm off to buy another today.

Thanks for your input Norm...I can see where you are coming from and sense your frustration in wanting to help the members get up to speed ASAP... but feeling that your hands are tied.

Oz

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Totally agree.

That's precisely the way I learned NOR - by printing out the six sample shoes and comparing it to the manual.

Reading the theory is great, but seeing actual examples - with corrections added where needed - is priceless.

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Totally agree.

That's precisely the way I learned NOR - by printing out the six sample shoes and comparing it to the manual.

Reading the theory is great, but seeing actual examples - with corrections added where needed - is priceless.

Ha, six sample shoes!

There should have been hundreds of sample shoes from all the members.

How priceless would that have been ?

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Ha, six sample shoes!

There should have been hundreds of sample shoes from all the members.

How priceless would that have been ?

YEP... I remember when Keith posted several shoes played by Ellis and Ellis posted his explanation of why he played each hand as he did...It was like a light bulb going off in my head...those shoes alone accelerated my learning curve exponentially

I can't see any way that the majority of BTC members can hope to grasp the complexities of the 4D without actual shoes complete with play by play being posted

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YEP... I remember when Keith posted several shoes played by Ellis and Ellis posted his explanation of why he played each hand as he did...It was like a light bulb going off in my head...those shoes alone accelerated my learning curve exponentially

Wow! That must've been awesome!

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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Well, remember we got hacked by those pros and were never able to retrieve those shoe scans and play by plays. We had the shoes of entire trip reports posted and many play by plays. Literally months of work up in smoke. We were down for 10 days or so.

There was just today a TV editorial on these hackers. Most are kids belonging to scamming groups each trying to outdo each other. Mostly high school drop outs addicted to computers.

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Well, remember we got hacked by those pros and were never able to retrieve those shoe scans and play by plays.

That is really not the point, if we were able to go back and see the shoe scans and play buys it would not mean a thing as they were from old systems.

The point is that it was an excellent way of learning and should be implemented for the future by every member of this forum.

BTW, what I am proposing is not for my benefit I am set in my way of playing, what I am proposing will help many of the new members who are having frustrating times with learning.

Norm A

FOLLOW THE SHOE

WHEN IN DOUBT WAIT IT OUT

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Well, remember we got hacked by those pros and were never able to retrieve those shoe scans and play by plays. We had the shoes of entire trip reports posted and many play by plays. Literally months of work up in smoke. We were down for 10 days or so.

There was just today a TV editorial on these hackers. Most are kids belonging to scamming groups each trying to outdo each other. Mostly high school drop outs addicted to computers.

I realise that it takes a lot of time and effort from you Ellis...but I still believe that there is and can be a no better learning tool than a full play by play analysis by you of a few shoes utilising 4D

Honestly Ellis...No BULLSHIT...I learnt so much from your play by play of those that shoes Keith posted..

I think that you see things differently to we mere mortals.

I seriously believe that anyone but you ...John...and Fiona who is claiming to fully understand the 4D and how to best use it is ...to use an Aussie colloquial expression..."Pulling their pud"

It's taken over 4 years for you to get this right...

For most of us to even come close to understanding it in a few short weeks...we need to get inside your head...(if you know what I mean?)

Oz

BTW: I've just purchased a new scanner...(now all I need is to find a teenager who can show me how to use it) LOL

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I am sure that some of the old timers will chime here and attest to what I am saying.

Even to this day there is a small group of us that exchange SC on a weekly basis.

Okay guys and gals I could lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink the ball is now in your court.

Norm,

Absolutely correct. In fact that's how I figured out "2-Hi" and "3-Hi" and SAP way back then.

If I remember right it was the ONLY way most people figured out how to play RD1!! (Still have the hand written graphic that was posted up)

I used to post a lot of shoes when I played them but I find myself only playing minimal hands now and a full shoe is few and far between.

With that said, any time I do play a full shoe, I'll get it posted up for all to see my incredible skill and accuracy (cough, cough) uh, my glaring computational errors and mismatch of red and blue pens from time to time!

Thanks for the words on posting up shoes. We needed that.

AD

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Hi Oz, I have the NOR+ shoes by Ellis bookmarked on my PC I will post them in the morning,saves you a search.

Those shoes would be a good refresher on NOR+, but what we need are some 4D shoes played by Ellis on the new 4D scorecard. That would be most helpful and seeing the play by plays would answer many questions for those wanting to learn 4D. Posting shoes is not hard and I would be glad as would many others if Ellis needs help putting them up.

Although I'm playing a different method, I've read the 4D info and find it very sound conceptually. These example shoes would help me answer my main question. Can this method with all it's required tracking and card notations and logging of info possibly be played at casino speed?

I've always learned more by studying posted example shoes than any other method. It would also avoid Ellis continuously having to answer repeated questions. Everyone could study the examples and learn at a much faster rate.

PJ

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Those shoes would be a good refresher on NOR+, but what we need are some 4D shoes played by Ellis on the new 4D scorecard. That would be most helpful and seeing the play by plays would answer many questions for those wanting to learn 4D. Posting shoes is not hard and I would be glad as would many others if Ellis needs help putting them up.

Although I'm playing a different method, I've read the 4D info and find it very sound conceptually. These example shoes would help me answer my main question. Can this method with all it's required tracking and card notations and logging of info possibly be played at casino speed?

I've always learned more by studying posted example shoes than any other method. It would also avoid Ellis continuously having to answer repeated questions. Everyone could study the examples and learn at a much faster rate.

PJ

Absolutely right PJ and OZ. We need some shoes and some play by plays. We have a lot of guys now concentrating on the 4 aspects:

1. Net betting the tightest spread

2. SS betting the highest count

3. Both at the same time

4. Super bets

Plus, score card design.

I'm trying to sort out a lot of incoming info from different sources.

There is a lot we don't know for sure yet but there is also much we DO know.

I'm thinking it will take a series of posted shoes with play by plays to cover all aspects. A lot of work. I would certainly appreciate help in posting shoes. I hate to keep bothering Keith. My computer is equipped but my head isn't.

I'm thinking in terms of U1D2 and perhaps sometimes U1D3 for both low side and high side along with occassional flat betting super bets or maybe a 123 prog on super bets.

I'm not all that worried about the time element. Actually SAP took even more work but you were able to accomodate it nicely. I think it is just a question of getting the score card design right and then practicing. It is not nearly as hard as it seems at first. The problem with SAP was neutral shoes. It had no way to play them but they are an asset for the 4D which decidedly DOES have a way to play them.

I would appreciate it if you guys would post some shoes using our short cut method and tell us where the shoes came from and if they are regular or preshuffled cards or live internet. I'd rather play your shoes than my own.

But right, people learn faster and better with posted shoes with play by play explanations.

Especially for the new guys, it was a huge loss when we lost the NOR play by plays.

It makes me rethink my views on gun control.

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Hi Ellis, If all the members are going to start posting shoes again it might be an idea to group them together in their own threads and maybe their own sub categories in their appropriate forums for easy access.

NOR SHOE EXAMPLES

S40

NOR+ SHOE EXAMPLES

OTB4L

4D SHOE EXAMPLES

NET BETTING

and so on...

Regards Lou.

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  • 1 year later...
Those shoes would be a good refresher on NOR+, but what we need are some 4D shoes played by Ellis on the new 4D scorecard. That would be most helpful and seeing the play by plays would answer many questions for those wanting to learn 4D. Posting shoes is not hard and I would be glad as would many others if Ellis needs help putting them up.

Although I'm playing a different method, I've read the 4D info and find it very sound conceptually. These example shoes would help me answer my main question. Can this method with all it's required tracking and card notations and logging of info possibly be played at casino speed?

I've always learned more by studying posted example shoes than any other method. It would also avoid Ellis continuously having to answer repeated questions. Everyone could study the examples and learn at a much faster rate.

PJ

PapaJoe,

May I ask what method you are using?

FrontAl

Be a Tracker and Hunt wisely!

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Those shoes would be a good refresher on NOR+, but what we need are some 4D shoes played by Ellis on the new 4D scorecard. That would be most helpful and seeing the play by plays would answer many questions for those wanting to learn 4D. Posting shoes is not hard and I would be glad as would many others if Ellis needs help putting them up.

Although I'm playing a different method, I've read the 4D info and find it very sound conceptually. These example shoes would help me answer my main question. Can this method with all it's required tracking and card notations and logging of info possibly be played at casino speed?

I've always learned more by studying posted example shoes than any other method. It would also avoid Ellis continuously having to answer repeated questions. Everyone could study the examples and learn at a much faster rate.

PJ

May I ask what method you are using?

FrontAl

Be a Tracker and Hunt wisely!

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Those shoes would be a good refresher on NOR+, but what we need are some 4D shoes played by Ellis on the new 4D scorecard. That would be most helpful and seeing the play by plays would answer many questions for those wanting to learn 4D. Posting shoes is not hard and I would be glad as would many others if Ellis needs help putting them up.

Although I'm playing a different method, I've read the 4D info and find it very sound conceptually. These example shoes would help me answer my main question. Can this method with all it's required tracking and card notations and logging of info possibly be played at casino speed?

I've always learned more by studying posted example shoes than any other method. It would also avoid Ellis continuously having to answer repeated questions. Everyone could study the examples and learn at a much faster rate.

PJ

May I ask what method you are using?

FrontAl

Be a Tracker and Hunt wisely!

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