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Looks like those 2 stopped it out at first glance.

Guess that's the weigh up with having a universal system where you jump straight into every shoe without looking for a bias.

It is going to fail against certain situations but that's what stop losses are for.

Time will tell - what I really want to know is in time will it win more than it loses as -5 is not a big stop loss and +6 is not a big win goal.

If I know it wins more than it loses then all I have to do is stick to win goals and stop losses and keep playing and I will come out ahead

Like I said time will tell.

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This is more heart breaking than getting dumped by my girlfriend.

Played few shoe at casino yesterday, struggling with clumps and then got K.O by the 3s.

Just like way2fast said, it needs a long ping pong (ZZ run) and a long dragon (Streak run) to make money.

But everyone else could see that too, not hard to spot long ZZ runs and Streak runs.

By the time you realize that the shoe is producing High 3s, I have already got wiped out.

If, ONLY IF i knew the shoe will produce High 3s. I won't need a system, i will just flat bet 1K unit on 3s stay 3s.

Had alot of hope for this system, thought it could be the end of guessing and finding bias (NOR) or non bias shoe (MDB+).

Thought it may help combat the unknown situations ahead of you, and helps you ride through the rough spots.

Just my 2 cents

Edited by Yumi.P
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As Ellis said its and earlybird special and its a version of tester rules.

Every system wins and loses on something that's a fact and it will always be that way

Im actually glad about that as that's why casinos still exist.

I think you guys may be expecting too much in the first few days when you have only really had time to learn the rules and start putting it into practise.

NOR and MDB work for me every day but there is still people saying they don't and posting shoes that they lost on when they are clear winners

So you got stopped out at -5 on some shoes?

That doesn't mean you have to write it off without further investigation and practise - the seminars only just over and so now the real discussions will likely start.

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Brad,

I played 26 shoes over the weekend at the Rock. Both high limit and non high limit rooms. I didn't play mdb, and I'm glad I didnt.

It lost in 14 of 26 shoes on the 124 progression.

I saw 8 2s before as 3, I saw 6 3s before a 4 over and over. But I know this about my home casino already.

I can post the shoes if you'd like. I tried the 2hi on these shoes and it didn't fair as well either....got stomped out early on 3s....

I say this because I think having local casino knowledge is important

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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As Ellis said its and earlybird special and its a version of tester rules.

Every system wins and loses on something that's a fact and it will always be that way

Im actually glad about that as that's why casinos still exist.

I think you guys may be expecting too much in the first few days when you have only really had time to learn the rules and start putting it into practise.

NOR and MDB work for me every day but there is still people saying they don't and posting shoes that they lost on when they are clear winners

So you got stopped out at -5 on some shoes?

That doesn't mean you have to write it off without further investigation and practise - the seminars only just over and so now the real discussions will likely start.

MDB does not work at my casino (Singapore). Well, it does work for some shoes but I do see many shoes with 8 2s or even 10 2s without going to 3, or 3 going to 4. Like what trbfla said. Ok some people has been posting shoes that they lost when MDB could have won but that doesnt mean all those who said MDB doesnt work dont know how to play MDB.

Now, it is perfectly normal to buy a system and feel cheated or disappointed if it does not work well. That doesnt mean we are assholes. We supported this forum and that's a fact. We trust Ellis and im sure he will fix this.

I agree that all systems lose to something and the NB2Hi loses to 3s. We will get killed easily if we encounter 3s early. how do we fix that? what if we 0 bet when we see a 3 or something? With so many heads im sure we can find a solution to that. I really hope everyone can start to discuss this ASAP. be nice to one another but be mean to those who talks too much rubbish but does not support the forum.

Hope I don't offend anyone as I have no intention of doing so.

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Brad,

I played 26 shoes over the weekend at the Rock. Both high limit and non high limit rooms. I didn't play mdb, and I'm glad I didnt.

It lost in 14 of 26 shoes on the 124 progression.

I saw 8 2s before as 3, I saw 6 3s before a 4 over and over. But I know this about my home casino already.

I can post the shoes if you'd like. I tried the 2hi on these shoes and it didn't fair as well either....got stomped out early on 3s....

I say this because I think having local casino knowledge is important

Hey trbfla, I agree having the local casino knowledge is most important. So what did you play on those 26 shoes and how did you do?

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I have continued to try U2Hi on previous shoes, and still experience a high rate of hitting the stop loss. As I said previously, it pretty much only wins with a long ZZ or long streak. It's not true that it only loses to 3s. But even if that was the only issue, you really can't adjust as by the time you decide the shoe is high in 3s you are already out of the shoe (it sometimes only takes one 3 to hit stop loss). It's easy to use hindsight to say a shoe is high in 3s, but in real time you often don't know until it is too late.

Me thinks maybe this was rushed out under the pressure of promising something for the seminar. I have no doubt that Ellis (who is brilliant at thinking these things through) will make some changes to address this. The simplicity of the system is great, and the way it automatically gets you on the ZZ and long streaks is nothing short of magical -- there was a comment that anyone can see a long streak and get on it, but in real time, most players don't get in early enough. This is really a strong attribute of this system.

I think you guys may be expecting too much in the first few days when you have only really had time to learn the rules and start putting it into practise.

So you got stopped out at -5 on some shoes?

That doesn't mean you have to write it off without further investigation and practise - the seminars only just over and so now the real discussions will likely start.

I don't see this as the issue. It takes all of 5 minutes to learn the rules and one practice shoe to confirm you understand. So it's not like continued practice of the rules is going to change the outcome.

I do agree with you that winning more shoes than losing is good and will lead to making money. But for me the issue is how many shoes hit the stop loss. When I play those same shoes with the chop/streak method I have been using, I do better in every shoe which U2Hi loses. On the shoes which U2hi wins, chop/streak does better in some, but U2Hi does better in those shoes which it kills. Of course, if you live by the +6 exit, then U2hi, as it currently exists, is not satisfactory.

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Brad,

I played 26 shoes over the weekend at the Rock. Both high limit and non high limit rooms. I didn't play mdb, and I'm glad I didnt.

It lost in 14 of 26 shoes on the 124 progression.

I saw 8 2s before as 3, I saw 6 3s before a 4 over and over. But I know this about my home casino already.

I can post the shoes if you'd like. I tried the 2hi on these shoes and it didn't fair as well either....got stomped out early on 3s....

I say this because I think having local casino knowledge is important

trbfla: Could you please post your shoes from your weekend at the Rock, at your convenience ??? Thank you for your contributions and comments.

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parts of the system are genius, maybe if we are going to have such a mechanical system which is is so simple we may have to have a more aggressive progression to deal with what it is not good at. In my opinion if you are not playing to a bias then its always going to come up with some issues.

the question how do we overcome them?

I believe this system will come good and be the answer to these crazy shoes that most are coming up against.

We have a start and not a bad one i must say, now we need to improve and work out how we solve the negatives and we could have something special here.

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The good thing here is everyone agrees there is a place for a Netbet system - a universal one with a max of 2hi would be really great.

Everyone agrees this system has potential - the concept is really great but at this point doesn't look like it lives up to the standard of what people thought it would be.

Everyone has faith Ellis will make this system work in time - its a pretty tough task in front of him - create a system that you can jump right into any shoe, never bet more than 2 units and come out ahead every time or more often than you lose.

Everyone here is constructive and here for the same reason - that alone says we will get there.

I still think NOR and MDB is enough to win decisively over virtually anything but having this would be even better.

Bighorn can you pm me some of the Singapore shoes you played that mdb doesn't work on so I can practise on them - very interested on these.

I been playing online at moment - Black orchid casino - hand shuffle - usually good for NOR. I been waiting for first 3 events before I jump in - usually find TB4L is a good default and sometimes stays right thru

This morning +20 betting only 1,2 progression - only 5 x 2iar's in 60 hands so it worked out real well.

Have just been phasing in this 2Hi and seeing how it does - so far 50 / 50

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I have been using a -8 stoploss and because of that I have been able to achieve a higher win Rate and a higher overall when average .

By the time I hit my stoploss I notice I can use either F system or TBL . Just an observation .

Edited by Guest
misspelling
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Whats does it exactly lose to? we knew from day 1 that it lost to 3's

what else? from what i have seen with a slightly more aggressive progression we could win most of these shoes.

With other systems you know exactly how many units you will win or lose on certain events. for example, you KNOW OTBL Wins 2 units on any 2iar and wins 2 units on any 3iar.

With a net betting system where one side can start and stop, it really depends what happens before the event. Take 3iar as an example. As mentioned, U2Hi will lose to a 3. No problem, every system will lose to something. I have noticed that a 3 will cause a loss of at least 1 unit, but as much as 4 units. Losing 4 units on one event when playing so tight (+6/-5) is, IMO, a problem.

U2Hi also doesn't do so well against 2s, where it can lose as much as 3 units. The best it has done against a 2 is breakeven. Against a single 1 it can win 2 units, but can also lose as much as 2 units.

So it is possible to lose to 1s, 2s and 3s. You can see why if you don't hit a nice long ZZ or straight streak it is very easy to hit your stop loss.

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One liners are key. Replayed some losing shoes and ended up winning a couple units on most before I quit. This time I held off on making the 2bet on the shoes with low one liners. Just went by what happened last time. If it went to 4 ZZ last time, then I would make the 2bet. If not I just stayed out.

Did the same thing for runs. If the last 3 went to 4 then I would make the 2bet. If not I stayed out.

So on the bad shoes (OTB really) you pretty much flat bet 1 unit against 1s and 2s. Then let the chop and 3s dictate the rest.

As long as the previous events would have won last time, I played as normal.

The shoes u normally win, u win anyways. But the losing shoes have a chance to be turned into small wins even if it's 1 unit. Or a small loss. Big units seems to be the only way as commission will tear u up.

Yes u will miss an occasional long run that if u were on would have made u win - but this is still gambling.

Edited by ztomsk
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