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Lets bring back NOR


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Hey guys, this forum has been a little dead lately, I thought it would be good to try and bring back discussions and posted shoes

There's a lot of new guys who only joined NOR or they joined up full and don't post on NOR forum.

I think NOR is still valid even in the difficult shoes there can be ways to come out with a small win.

Maybe we need to lower win target, not bet every hand, place more imaginary bets, bet a max of 2 units in a 1,2 progression, default to TB4L or S40, wait for the shoe to unfold more, do the bootcamp with Steve etc

I'm gonna post up some shoes for discussion

Hopefully we can get the older NOR guys back on here, and get gthe new guys skill level up there.

I'm relatively new and practising a lot and its starting to come together for me now

I just don't see much discussion here or shoes posted so gonna try and change that.

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NOR can have as high of a success rate as MDB+. You just have to know how to play it right.

Hey guys, this forum has been a little dead lately, I thought it would be good to try and bring back discussions and posted shoes

There's a lot of new guys who only joined NOR or they joined up full and don't post on NOR forum.

I think NOR is still valid even in the difficult shoes there can be ways to come out with a small win.

Maybe we need to lower win target, not bet every hand, place more imaginary bets, bet a max of 2 units in a 1,2 progression, default to TB4L or S40, wait for the shoe to unfold more, do the bootcamp with Steve etc

I'm gonna post up some shoes for discussion

Hopefully we can get the older NOR guys back on here, and get gthe new guys skill level up there.

I'm relatively new and practising a lot and its starting to come together for me now

I just don't see much discussion here or shoes posted so gonna try and change that.

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In my opinion Nor and S40 was more than enough to get you started and winning. If you can't win with those then you have some practicing to do. A lot of players don't want to risk a lot but like Oprah said " If there is something out there you want and you never had it , You are going to have to do something you have never done to get it " . And really S40 with the SAP count is enough . Quit looking for the HOLY GRAIL and put some work in and stop going down these NEW RABBIT HOLES that are created. Those of you who keep buying your way into a NEW DOOR , ,,,,,, You already have the answer just study .I have read every system out there and S40/SAP COUNT /NOR is as close as you are going to get to a decent system, I don't have MDB+ ...And once I saw it quite a few of those rules I had already incorporated in my S/40 SYSTEM , and that came from practice ! I might risk any where from 10-12 units per shoe and I very seldom get to -6 , You have to have discipline and be able to sit and wait for the shoe you want to come to YOU . If its not there then don't PLAY . You are right BRAD lets get back to S40/NOR Discussions . Everytime a new door is created everyone rushes to see there is nothing there but the same old thing .... TRUST ME LADIES AND GENTS NOR IS THE FARTHEST YOU HAVE TO GO TO BE A CONSISTENT WINNER, THE REST IS ON YOU .

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I found lately that what looks like what could be an S40 shoe by the end of the shoe could be and F shoe or a TB4L shoe.

S40 at one time was a default system for me but at the moment I'm not so sure.

You could have a lot of chops and then all it takes is 1 run on the side of some 2's and that's an F shoe instead

Also you can get some chops and some 2's and it looks like being an S40 but then all it takes is some runs and a lack of 2's and its a TB4L shoe.

Get some chops and it looks like S40 and then you realise the 2's are equal to ones, and then some 3's and its a OTBL shoe.

And vice versa

This is described in the manual as overlap.

The point is experience can show you what to look for to determine the right shoe and sometimes it can switch over too.

Sometimes a highly biased shoe can go the other way and equalise.

We have to be like a tight rope walker - balanced for a left or right shift and ready to move at any time and aware that the weight will constantly change but when you get balanced, walk forward for as long as you but don't go too fast or you will lose balance and fall!

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Also you can get some chops and some 2's and it looks like being an S40 but then all it takes is some runs and a lack of 2's and its a TB4L shoe.

Hi Brad, remember that S40 and TB4L are not two different systems. TB4L is exactly the same as S40 Mode 1.

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Hi way2fast - noted

They are exactly the same apart from I remember Ellis saying the way they start - S40m1 always bets opposites and goes OTR after 1 loss where as TB4L will look to bet the same as the result before the last one (2 results ago) so if starting out from the start of a shoe S40M1 would bet an opposite to the last result where as TB4L would need to wait for 2 results to bet the time before last ??

Correct me if I'm wrong here but it makes little difference anyway.

But Ellis said he did not include this in original version of NOR as at the time this type of shoe was obsolete but then it returned so he reintroduced it.

Nowadays it seems like anything goes so you need to know all systems.

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I will also say that Frank Barstow wrote in his book Beat The Casino (appropriate) that the best 2 methods of bet selection that he saw was Repeat (TB4L) and reverse repeat (OTBL).

He went on to say that repeat seemed to be the more common and a bet selection that switched between the 2 was better depending on what was coming

So this guy had it right years ago

A great book from a guy who came into gambling with an open mind

Although very basic compared to the level this forum goes to.

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Hi trblfa. When you say having a good game plan with the 2's for S40 what do you mean?

For me S40 means 1's and 1's and 2's

1's are best with 2's just behind in volume - if 2's start to equal 1's I find I would win more with OTBL

I guess for me when I choose S40 I don't worry about 2's that much unless its TB4L / S40m1 in which case I would switch if 2's started to show up to their normal frequency or beyond.

Maybe you have a different approach or opinion on 2's in relation to S40?

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Yes I meant s40m1. Not sure where the m1 went in my post. S40m1 losses to all 2s so a good idea is to have a game plan on them.....if one waits to switch after seeing a lot of 2s its too late, you've already lost to them. Far to often we hear the ole, well if it starts losing switch....much better to have a pre planned game plan.

S40m3 with a obtl is good too, it runs thru most if you can wait the 2 losses on 3s

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
In my opinion Nor and S40 was more than enough to get you started and winning. If you can't win with those then you have some practicing to do. A lot of players don't want to risk a lot but like Oprah said " If there is something out there you want and you never had it , You are going to have to do something you have never done to get it " . And really S40 with the SAP count is enough . Quit looking for the HOLY GRAIL and put some work in and stop going down these NEW RABBIT HOLES that are created. Those of you who keep buying your way into a NEW DOOR , ,,,,,, You already have the answer just study .I have read every system out there and S40/SAP COUNT /NOR is as close as you are going to get to a decent system, I don't have MDB+ ...And once I saw it quite a few of those rules I had already incorporated in my S/40 SYSTEM , and that came from practice ! I might risk any where from 10-12 units per shoe and I very seldom get to -6 , You have to have discipline and be able to sit and wait for the shoe you want to come to YOU . If its not there then don't PLAY . You are right BRAD lets get back to S40/NOR Discussions . Everytime a new door is created everyone rushes to see there is nothing there but the same old thing .... TRUST ME LADIES AND GENTS NOR IS THE FARTHEST YOU HAVE TO GO TO BE A CONSISTENT WINNER, THE REST IS ON YOU .

Agree, BoxTop

It's time to " tweak NOR"

The Best System Foundation, ever.

And who better than Dr. E. Himself to do it?

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Agree, BoxTop

It's time to " tweak NOR"

The Best System Foundation, ever.

And who better than Dr. E. Himself to do it?

Kevin...

Maybe you can answer what I have asked 3 times ( and others have also ) ...whats up with U2Hi....suppose to have been the mechanical system to beat any game , anywhere , anytime !

Like I said....asked 3 times on the forum ....no responce from anyone ! NOT GOOD !!

It went from the greatest thing since sliced whole wheat bread ...to complete silence ! Unless one is on the U2Hi Private Forum ! Not a word from " Dr E ? "

Edited by johnnycs1
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Kevin...

Maybe you can answer what I have asked 3 times ( and others have also ) ...whats up with U2Hi....suppose to have been the mechanical system to beat any game , anywhere , anytime !

Like I said....asked 3 times on the forum ....no responce from anyone ! NOT GOOD !!

It went from the greatest thing since sliced whole wheat bread ...to complete silence ! Unless one is on the U2Hi Private Forum ! Not a word from " Dr E ? "

The only ONE for ALL that works (sometimes) is a remote control.

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I will also say that Frank Barstow wrote in his book Beat The Casino (appropriate) that the best 2 methods of bet selection that he saw was Repeat (TB4L) and reverse repeat (OTBL).

He went on to say that repeat seemed to be the more common and a bet selection that switched between the 2 was better depending on what was coming

So this guy had it right years ago

A great book from a guy who came into gambling with an open mind

Although very basic compared to the level this forum goes to.

Frank Barstow -- what f**king idiot! So he says the two best methods are either TBL or OTBL depending on what is happening? Every single result in Bac is either a TBL win or an OTBL win. So this is the same as saying that the two best ways to play are to bet either Player or Banker. FFS!! (thanks Oz, that expression is going to come in handy!)

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I took it that he says the 2 best methods of bet selection he knows of were repeat (TBL) or reverse repeat (OTBL) in terms of simplicity and coming out of a series with a reasonable hot ratio.

I don't know I just thought for a guy who came from the stock market and wrote a gambling book with a non biased view he didn't do too bad

There are guys out there preaching way worse methods and his are 2 legit ones that are used on this forum.

Although just staring to admit to the downfalls of TBL lately

OTBL though when played right can really kick ass - I think that has more value.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I've been playing online as you can start low limit and with min tables at my casino of $15 I'm not going to drive there and back all the time although its only a 20 min drive.

I do go as often as I can though to record shoes as eventually I want to get these guys. I've been losing there since I was 18 until I joined this forum and stopped playing

Now I can say that I believe they are striving for OTBL as they put preshuffled thru a shuffler and OTBL is what seems to come out

So I recorded a few shoes last night and then played them OTBL straight off.

Below is results for 1:

post-3840-14500262639788_thumb.png

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So heres another shoe I just recorded and then played it OTBL from start based on my assumption that these guys are going for OTBL

Trying to listen to Ellis and earn when to go all out - +27 not too bad if I quit in 3rd column by the half decade rule

post-3840-14500262647337_thumb.jpg

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This is the shoe imaginenow asked for help on

This is how I would have played it with NOR looking at what came out at the start was 1's and 2's

Start slowly with flat bet and don't increase on 2nd bet until you have won, and same with 3rd bet

As soon as hit rate gets ok then go to U1D2M2 as it doesn't take much to get to +5 and then you can quit if you want

Allow -8 stop loss if you are going to use U1D2M2

All from the NOR manual

Others may do differently - please comment

post-3840-14500262647634_thumb.jpg

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Just finding lately while using nor for roulette that because roulette is often choppy i use s40 as default. In terms of mode i use m3 as default i have switched between m3 and m2 each time. If shoe ir table is biased normally then 1's and 2's are most common so a u1d2 progression will get through it. Think of 3's and 4+'s as 50 / 50 events and run a separate u1d2 progression for those. Only time it doesnt work is for streaky table in which case stop, change systems or wait till choppy again. For roulette it usually goes choppy again pretty quick. Not hard to hit +5 and quit. Sure this has been done before in fact i think thats how s40 started. Just saying.

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