kachatz1

Yeah, after a few hard "lessons learned", it took no more than a move by his hand towards his belt buckle... we all scattered, and hoped the bedroom door lock was sufficient ( tough for a kid to move a dresser across carpet in those days, though it was tried more than once...) And I will never forget the time we all thought Ma Bell's White Pages would save the day...My sisters were first in line that evening, and despite what used to be a pretty thick list of phone #'s for Columbus, OH in 1963... by the time he got to me, pretty sure he figured things out... When we thought of the idea, we were pretty smug about the whole thing. Never thought "being smarter than a 5th grader" could have such painful consequences...

Many years ago, when my mother would tire of trying to maintain order between my sisters and me, she often resorted to passing off the disciplinary task to my father. Of course, with Dad working all day, Mom often resorted to the hint of what lay in store for us by simply remarking" Just wait until your Father gets home", which loosely translated meant we better shape up or Dad was sure to be called upon to teach us how to behave later that day. Oddly enough, though many years have passed since those times, Mom's words came back to me when I was sitting at the Bac table Tuesday morning in Milwaukee...well, actually I had been sitting there playing for over 3 hours when those words and memories floated to the surface... As is often the case, I find myself playing Bac in a casino with only one table open, and no other casino's in the area. And since the general rule is " no free hands" , and I am often playing alone at this hour of the day, in order to keep the game moving I must play every hand, even if I play both sides ( wagering on both Player and Banker, simultaneously)... So there I was after about 3 hours, finishing up a third shoe, with pretty lackluster results for having been at the table that long. Like many of the shoes we all play, nothing seemed to be working particularly well, so I found myself having to pay a fair amount of commission each shoe, just so I could keep the game moving and " pick my spots" that we're most advantageous for making some serious addition to the bankroll And then came the fourth shoe,just when I was about resigned to a small win for the day...I'll post it " long hand" so you can really get a sense of how you might have played it... P BB PP BB PP BB PP BBBBBBBB PP B P BB PP BB PPPPPP B PP BB P B PP BB PP BBBBB PP BB PP B P B PP BBB PP B PP BB A very, very nice profit...made the drive back to Chicago that much easier... Several days later, I still can't quite figure out why something I haven't thought about in many,many years would occur to me during a Bac game, but I have concluded that somehow, the association with the principles of NOR found Mom's words in the far recesses of my brain... Because, just like I knew what was going to happen to me and my sisters when Dad got home, it was eerily similar to NOR. Follow the rules. ( or else face the consequences...) Moms always seem to know what they are talking about...HA!

Kramden- Not sure I can be much help on the MM angle. There are many, many ideas on this topic, and If you take the time to read about them, and then practice a few, I think you will ultimately come to the realization that they all work sometimes, and none of them work all of the time. Likely you already know this !! Had to learn myself through trial and error ( seemed I was always on trial, making errors!) ... Finally learned patience enough to act more aggressively when winning, and conservatively when things not going so well. Good luck!

Kramden/Dave I have had many people ask me about NOR, to send them the manual, to explain to them, etc. how I play. I refuse to send NOR manual to anyone, but anybody asks me I refer them to this forum so they can get their own copy. I can best describe my method of play as per post 9 and 26 of thread Anyone Making Money with NOR? on the other forum. NOR is just Neutral Opposite Repeat, and I do not play precisely as NOR manual, but I simply take the BASIC precepts of Neutral Opposite and Repeat and play a very simple game where I focus on the widest disparities from 50/50 and bet accordingly. MM I leave up to you, as there are so many concepts it really is up to the individual to learn whether they prefer to act like a FormulaOne race- car driver, or more like the little old lady who only drives once a week ( to the casino, of course!).....most of us are somewhere in between, and NOR is far-and -away the best drivers education manual for Baccarat I have ever come across! And yes, no matter how good of a driver we think we are, sometimes it is just a better idea to take the bus or walk to where we need to get to...like anything else, always better to learn to walk first, before you run. Hope this helps...

Attended the Team Play Blackjack Forum this weekend, which was combined with an NOR " refresher course/ practice session" for seminar attendees... Had to have been at least 70 people at the Team Play BJ session Saturday, held at a Casino Dealers School ... Instructive and entertaining 6 hours, after which my friend and I retreated to The Mandalay Bay for some R and R... After dinner, since my friend still trying to grasp NOR, first we headed to the BAC tables over at the Gold Coast...lots of tables, lots of games to decide which one best fit NOR play... Rather than pick a specific table, we bounced from table- to -table , so that at each "stop" I could show Mark how NOR might be used to address the shoe results posted thus far, and then on to another table to illustrate again another logical entry point and when to get in/ get out...Left within the hour with a $400 profit each, starting with a base of $300 apiece...all plays we're quarters and never bet more than 3 units Mark requested we head back to the Mandalay Bay Hotel and we play a shoe from start-to-finish, using NOR principles and application thereof... Here is the shoe: B321115112111213232332222221111332211 Needless to say, we "killed" that shoe, and all due to OTBL/TBL disparity by the end of the shoe...B=34, P=33...Opp=34, repeat=32...looks neutral, huh? Yeah, and sure enough OTBL came thru with flying colors with a 41/24 disparity vs TBL...I was playing Black Beauties, so with careful money management pulled 17 units out of this shoe... Not sure whether it was the scotch, or we were just plain fired up by the Team Play BJ seminar, but around 2 am we sat at an empty BJ table with $300 apiece...me at FB , playing the BP and Mark at 3B playing the SP..about 3 hands in, here comes 3 guys...decided to join us...undaunted, we stuck to our plan, and 2 of them quickly left, while their buddy hung around for about 30 hands. At $25/ unit Mark left after losing $100 over the course of about 15 hands, and as he walked by me I handed him 4 green chips to " bring him back to even"... I carried on at FB with the lone survivor of the gang of three who still remained at the table..nice guy, and maybe next time I will clue him in on the fact that I continued to play Team BJ concepts against the dealer, and while not an "official member" of my Team, I " deputized" him without his even knowing it... Another 20 hands, and I was up almost $350, so I retreated to meet up with Mark at our rendezvous point, The Eye Candy nightclub. A quick divvy up of our team profits ( 50/50 split), and we ordered another round of McClellan 12 to celebrate the night... So, just what was the price of admission? Well, $799 for the Team Play BJ seminar was all, since room was comped courtesy of MLife players Club, and Southwest came through with the airline ticket to Vegas...all in, for the single day of Team Play Seminar, including dinner I paid for Mark and his wife, Mark and I hit the hay at 4:00 am over $1800 for the good guys, after paying for the seminar! Once again, thanks to Ellis and Keith for a great seminar and a couple of nifty Parlor Tricks to apply to BJ play...I will definitely get a copy of NBJ as I am once again " energized" about getting back into blackjack play as well as BAC As for Mark, while he and I have played BAC a few times over the years, by the end of our Gold Coast and Mandalay Bay BAC excursion, he can play NOR at about the 80% confidence level... Old saying: Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Well, if you need to know,Mark and his wife both had the salmon for dinner, and I had the Ahi Tuna...

Boys and Girls: Pay attention...this WILL NOT be Ellis' last hurrah! Already added a NOR segment on to BJ seminar in Vegas... Already have an NOR seminar planned for LA later same month, albeit with a mystery teacher we are about to get intoduced to by the Keith-ster! Why do you think all the new shows are about vampires? (BCUZ they smell blood!) Ellis is in. As in All-IN! Just like on TV! Now, we have to get him that FC upgrade trip to Singapore... Witchy, where are you?

Agree BV, just as I did with Ellis.. Elvis may have left the building, but Ellis is our landlord, and he owns the place...

Appreciate your response...only way I could see advantage might be aggressive progression and some streaky shoes, but seems like you say NB much easier to control ... And safer!

Like Motel6...we'll leave the lights on...

Seems likely it involves OTBL/TBL betting,and could be played by two people with a up-as-U-win/up-as-U- lose BS/MM strategy,but stop-betting after few losses/repeat betting after a paper win. Ellis, can you comment in Bac Forum? Much appreciated.

Ellis - Read on the other forum that Barstow suggested there is a viable method for TEAM PLAY in Baccarat. Likely involves a MM aspect, and a single playing partner ( or not even needed with Net Betting?) Can you comment?? If viable, this could be very valuable to all members...if really, really viable could be added to the BJ Team Play seminar upcoming in Vegas! Thanks. kachatz1

Good going Garanimal! LC/MC is sometimes a very effective tool in the BacBag. combined with NOR techniques it would be like you are now Bruce Lee against TheArmyOfDarkness, and nobody ever beat Bruce Lee! Keep up the winning, and when you get to the point of wanting to become even more complete player U will see how NOR makes this all possible... Sounds to me you are very capable of running SYSTEM OVERLAY of systems to really magnify your wins! Good Luck!

Like AD, I played In Macau many times back when one Ho had all the table actions, and the other side of the Ho family worked primarily as " elevator attendants" . And yes, I also looked forward to the boat ride... Have not played there since, but would like to see all the Casinos built last 10 years for a comparison to Vegas.

Garanimal: Pretty simple. 1) Buy the NOR manual. 2) Study it, making sure you know all the acronyms, etc. 3) Apply its Teachings to a couple of previous shoes you have played, careful to make sure you evaluate decision-by-decision to compare what NOR says-to-do versus how the actual shoe played out. Ten shoes should give you the insider edge, and complete your home-study course in NOR. 4) Now, play a few live shoes from your favorite B+M casino. Bet 1/2 your normal unit size, just to test it out. 5) Looking at your unit size, I am certain you can afford the investment in NOR manual, and will be handsomely rewarded. If it's cost is too much for you, glean what you can from the "free" posts and see if you can't discern how/why I say that. Good luck to you. NOR is simply the best way to play the game, giving you all the angles no matter how the shoe is behaving. Throw in the MM insights you see here on the forum, and i think you will agree that " while you don't always win at Baccarat, when you DO, it is with NOR" Stay thirsty, my friends. In the end, betting just a few shoes, NOR manual price is a BEST VALUE to add to your aersenal of weapons. i USE IT ALL THE TIME...OFTEN REFERRING TO IT RIGHT BEFORE I SIT DOWN IN A CASINO TO PLAY A FEW SHOES..., GOOD LUCK!

davem Might help U, might not.. I keep track of following 6 metrics P B O R OTBl TBL After each decision, I just put a little mark next to what the last hand results were Goes pretty fast, once you get used to it. As the disparity from norm 50/50 builds, it acts as a pretty good road map to make your next selection...shows where the highest disparity exists Gives me a snapshot of N.O.R. Biases all in one..

$799 for this? That's It? I'm all in. I will sign up at once.

Sign up page indicates this is a TeamPlay Blackack seminar. Will the demonstration include TeamPlay Baccarat? Other Table Games? What else will be covered? How many hours should I budget for attendance, so I can make flight/ hotel reservations? Anything else on the Agenda? Answers will likely clarify for others as well the benefits of attendance.... Thanks

What? No coin collection???? HA!

Not so internet savvy i can do that, just copy and paste between forums? Seems like a job for the MVS/AD superman, not me... I just commented on BF that PVB, OvR, OT4BL vTBL are all discussed here all the time, and they are ( sometimes names differently, like S40 or F...this I did NOT discuss!) the basis of all baccarat decisions...what's left is MM Daytrader ( who is on this forum) asked if NOR really works, and any "changes/tweaks" worthwhile...I responded how to "keep track" BO_DA said it all...he is the king of Canada, becausse of NOR...Witchygal comments that even in Singapore, with preshuffled cards, it is tough to win, but she can...Malaysia John weighs in, and he is ready to swear on a stack of ?? that it's the cat's meow...players all over the world are wising-up to it... --Sue someone over something posted on the internet? HOW DEEP IS YOUR VALLEY?? H0W MUCH MONEY YOU GOT? LET'S JUST ALL AGREE...These forums are speculative in nature, nobody guaranteed anything... Best we can all do is pick a BS/MM/stop win/stop loss/trigger/ yada, yada best suits our personality and BR. Then, let the games begin. So far, you make the most sense out of it all, so I am backing the pointspread, and fading the wannabe's....things change, and so will I.

Release the date now...it is the LAST HURRAH,RIGHT?? Many will follow this path to ultimate BS/MM nirvana......hoping to make my reservations aSaP!! We are waiting with "baited breath",but also apprehensive as to what the futute will hold w/o Dr. Davis?

All bets 1,2,3,4 unit sequence, then started over. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Only thing I changed was BPBPBPBPBP or switch to PBPBPBPB, etc...If B running hard in the shoe, better the B bets be $50 and $100...if P running above norm, try to max out the same, Really just a version of NOR,,,worked great on Neutral (OT4BL), worked well on Opposites, and so long as I caught the Banker/vs. Player bias, did ok on repeats also! Ellis, I am not trying to invent/reinvent anything! Just passing along a good experience, something the forum is lacking lately... Dave's a great guy, and likely he's either tossed in the baccarat towel, or he is on to bigger and better adventures... me-thinks it is both, as he is smart enough to recognize that the Baccarat game of chance is mostly just that... Long live NOR...you are still the King!

Spent some time at the Rivers Casino and Potowatami in Chicago and Milwaukee this weekend, and played a very simple BS + MM. Very low fatigue, and very simple to play. Simple, as follows: BS = BPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBP...( do this for all 70-80) hands...or, if you want, PBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPB - Those of you who are really adventuresome might even want to experiment with switching between the two during the shoe... MM = 1 unit, 2 units, 3 units, 4 units...now start over and repeat for the remainder of the shoe (1,2,3,4. 1,2,3,4. 1,2,3,4. Etc, etc.) So, example is simple to follow...I will use $25 as unit size this this is very common...of course, if available you can use whatever minimum unit size you have available at your local casino ( pounds, RMB, Baht, Euros, etc.) Starting beginning of shoe, bet the shoe as follows: B$25 P$50 B$75 P$100 B$25 P$50 B$75 P$100 ( repeat, repeat, repeat) ------- just keep doing this until you have reached your goal for the shoe ( 1 unit win? 10 unit win? 8 unit stop loss? More? Less? YOU DECIDE) Some general observations: I played 4 shoes at Rivers, and 6 shoes at Potowatami like this. I played 10 shoes total with the following results: Shoe1- + 17 units ($425, before commission) Shoe2- + 10 units ( exited after an early BPBP " chop streak" Shoe3- + 31 units Shoe4- - 6 units ( just was not working out well, and 2 times I was minus 10 units...decided to cut my losses...) Shoe5- + 13 units Shoe6- - 16 units ( way past my bed time...quit the shoe early) Shoe7- + 23 units Shoe8- + 42 units ( my best!!) Shoe9- + 3 units ( after the last shoe, I should have known!) Shoe10- - 11 units ( time to leave for the airport....) Generally speaking, I did the same things I always do when playing ( " wait" after losing a few in a row, watch the chip count to decide exit points, sometimes " switched from BPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBP approach to PBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPB IMPORTANT : make sure to "switch" if the the shoe is trending "biased" towards Banker ( use PBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPB ), or Player ( use BPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBPBP ) And, as Ellis so often condones, make sure your bet size, exit points, etc. are in proportion to you Bankroll and how the shoe is working out...in the above 10 shoes, I only played 2 of them start-to-finish, and even then I found myself sitting out a few hands here and there... Bet Selection? Pretty easy...virtually " stress less" Money Management? Just stuck with the 1,2,3,4 units...then repeat, again-and again-and again... No" rocket science" to this method, and certainly had my share of multiple wins-in-a-row, and same for losses Try this against some of your shoes you have accumulated at home...you will be surprised how easy it is to apply, and the MM is not a "killer", either... I still feel NOR is the best approach we have for success, but this idea ( suggested to me by someone who does not play..My Wife!) might be something to place in your bag of tricks!