brad01

As Ellis said its and earlybird special and its a version of tester rules. Every system wins and loses on something that's a fact and it will always be that way Im actually glad about that as that's why casinos still exist. I think you guys may be expecting too much in the first few days when you have only really had time to learn the rules and start putting it into practise. NOR and MDB work for me every day but there is still people saying they don't and posting shoes that they lost on when they are clear winners So you got stopped out at -5 on some shoes? That doesn't mean you have to write it off without further investigation and practise - the seminars only just over and so now the real discussions will likely start.

Hello Dayvid, MDB+ is not a bet every hand system - you become like a sniper and just bet when you see a trigger and your hit rate is very high. If you play with NOR it should be played separately with separate bank in my opinion and the bets will probably conflict so it would make sense to bet the MDB bet as the hit rate is higher. But the thing is it probably doesn't make sense to play with NOR as they were created for opposite reasons: NOR taking advantage of bias - lots of 1's and some 2's and low other events = S40 etc etc But what about when you cant see any clear bias? 1's and 2's are equal with 3's and 4's and 4+'s so what NOR strategy you gonna use? That's what MDB+ is for So to play both together it may not make sense you know? More common net bet and MDB+ together. or the new 2hi system which is net bet anyway So you are right if you play only mdb+ you will have to sit and not bet every hand Actually MDB+ in my opinion is a brilliant system which in the right situation will produce amazing hit rates. Hope this helps

Looks like those 2 stopped it out at first glance. Guess that's the weigh up with having a universal system where you jump straight into every shoe without looking for a bias. It is going to fail against certain situations but that's what stop losses are for. Time will tell - what I really want to know is in time will it win more than it loses as -5 is not a big stop loss and +6 is not a big win goal. If I know it wins more than it loses then all I have to do is stick to win goals and stop losses and keep playing and I will come out ahead Like I said time will tell.

Could the answer to the 3's be simply change the rules to bet the high side after 3 B's or 3 P's in a row ? Betting the high side after 2 P's or 2 B's means we switch sides after 2 iar If we just change that to 3 iar we will win off 3's but lose off 2 iar's That's not good as I'm sure Ellis said that 1's and 2's are most likely so the original rules take advantage of the most common events and by changing it to the 3's we miss out on winning the 2's so you have to be careful; and know what you are doing If 2's and 3's are about equal we could alternate the rule every time it comes up. With a small win target and small stop loss all we need to do is break even through the weak points and we should get there? I still think so far the simplicity of the this system and the small win goal / stop loss makes it an easy way to win more than you lose and that's all we could hope for?

Dont quite understand the ins and outs of the high side rule but so far im not winning a lot of bets that way. Maybe makes sense to stick to low side all the way surely if not winning high side bets?

I got the link straight away. Also got invite email from keith for video and examples. Some people are maybe expecting a thick manual but dont forget the more rules the more complex and the more people will complain. If its a simple system that wins more than it loses then isnt that the best?

there might be an official manual but maybe not. very few rules and if you re read and follow thru example u should get it. ellis said 10 mins is all u need

$195 for MDB members who can't attend. Early Bird code: Earlybirdmdb As per Keith's first post on this thread I signed up and got access to the manual straight away

Another simple and looks to be effective system! Thanks Ellis, Keith and the team! Cant wait to test it out and play for real!

Would agree that I would probably be ahead more overall exiting at +5 for every shoe than trying to hit +10 or higher and then hitting a bad run and going back to +1 or - We only remember the one shoe every so often that we hit +20, +30 or more. Add up the number of +5's we could of had and we are probably behind even with the +30 win My current goal is +10 per shoe or more if possible I think I will lower it to 2 x +5 shoes Not sure about stop loss - maybe -5 to -10 depending on what you play would make sense.

get yourself a wig and a false moustache!

Bac888 to determine what system to play you can consider the OR count and direction of OR count but this does not always give a true indication as this shoe has a 4 straight off which pushes OR - and then a couple of 1's which pushes it back to about neutral. Straight runs mixed with chops will make the count look neutral like OTBL but in actual fact it doesn't suit as OTBL is for 2's and 2's and 3's OR count can assist and can definitely tell you which mode to be in so is very important but the events also tell you which system to play. streaks along with chops - meaning everything except 2's is S40M1 or TB4L It means if there is an opposite then you bet opposites and then if there is a repeat you bet repeats why its called S40M1 - you go on the run after 1 loss for both streaks and chops so you are always on the run and taking advantage of streaks and chop runs but only thing is 2's will make you lose. 2's is 1 in 8 plays if I'm not wrong and for TB4L to work there must be at least as few 2's as 1 in 8 plays or ideally less than that. In this shoe 2's never increase above that amount so why not play a system that will beat everything excepts 2's ? Im sure you can find some info on this forum about it somewhere. Keep practising until you know the ins and outs of every system and then you will see at a glance what to play and if you get to that point and you look and you aren't sure then that means you probably shouldn't play NOR on that shoe because maybe there isn't anything that will give you a high hit rate. Maybe netbet or MDB+ is better - it depends what that casino does with their cards MDB+ scores +4 pretty easily for me on this shoe

Hi pete, 2hi hasn't been officially been released yet so I don't know the answer to that. there is potential rules posted and theres people having success with it already. mdb+ gives you access to everything at the moment. theres a lot of people having success with it in the right situations. not everyone though as its designed for random preshuffled and not everones casinos have them.

+13 is good no doubt but having to switch systems 2 - 3 times isn't imo yeah agreed practise until 2nd nature

winner for mdb+ by the way where did this come from?

TB4L dude - after the 4 and couple of 1's I hit it and took the 2's on the chin - at end of 1st column theres only 2 2's in 20 plays ended +22 with a 4 bet once (U1D1M2) I think that's a reasonable result and I tried to play it as though didn't know what was coming. that's my opinion

i have no connection to this site apart from a member. I don't have to say anything on the public forum but I do feel sorry for Ellis because he does an honest job and everything he teaches is real but yet people don't want to join and learn how to play properly and be able to learn from him and real pro players but they rather go to a website with fancy advertising and big claims and join and get scammed. thats the only reason I post on public forum when I see guys like u ask questions. Yes people like to complain if they are scammed but at the same time people want to get given a system that will earn them big $$ without putting in the effort too. In my opinion the systems here are all legit but nobody ever claimed you can learn them in 5 mins and start winning big $$. It requires practise and hard work. To answer your questions: The new 2hi system hasn't been released by Ellis yet so I don't know details about whether members will get access but the concept has been discussed on the private forum for several months and there are guys already playing it. There are rules there and anyone who wanted to learn it could practise and pick it up with a bit of discipline. Probably Ellis has refined it more and will release it soon. So u watch the video. Yes there was people talking about MDB vs nor as they both can work or not work depend on situation of what casino does with their cards. I'm not there. I'm from Australia but want to go to Vegas as soon as I can. I don't know oz but I been reading his posts for 5 years and I guess you can tell if someone's legit in that time if you analyse what they say. It's my opinion only. There's no member rankings. Everyone plays for themselves but from reading the posts you know who are the most successful players. Yes members can speak and ask questions and yes they do post shoes with their plays. How will you be ranked? I don't know you or how experienced you are. If I post a shoe that gives me problems can you answer it and show me how you would play it and why? Then I guess you would rank above me if you can do that most of the time?

Mdb gives you full membership so u get not as well. Also access to everything. Mdb is very easy to learn and works well for right situation. I would say most players don't bet 5k a hand - that is the highest level but there some who do. Depends on individual how fast u can get there. I never met oz but I believe what he says from this forum. He is one of the best players here at moment. This forum don't encourage big progressions. Maybe moving towards high bet of 2 only. Some people always say bad things about anything they don't know and can't do. Everything here requires practise and work. U can give some people an winning system and they still complain!

They probably changed them because you were winnin too much!

Hi Ellis well I played a shoe online the other day and it was like 212121425 etc I was like this looks like a s40 shoe then I saw a few streaks and went with f. Then it switched back to s40 near the end. I guess it's more probable a hand shuffled shoe going back to s40 than staying f - 1's and 2's being most common? I guess if it's f we should see streaks from the start otherwise it's highly probable it's s40 with a few streaks in the middle? Like you say - there's always a rough patch or 2 in every shoe.

I'm not really sure what access you have or what you need to be able to go on the SAP forum so don't really want to give too much away in case I'm giving away info which you may not have access to Have to consult Ellis on that as I'm not sure and don't want to get in trouble for that - I'll send him a PM and if its ok I'll reply or even better maybe he will . In summary - what events are happening and just as important NOT happening determines what is the optimum system to use and also what mode to use. You can determine it all from the OR count but SAP is another way of looking at it. Current direction of OR count just as important if not more important than overall OR count for NOR. Try to let the shoe tell you what to do don't guess because if you have to guess then you need more practise If you get stopped out don't worry - just don't keep losing Record that shoe and go over it and look what you could have done different - what triggers could have told you what to do, and how to win, and what systems would win and what would lose on that shoe - if you see it happen again then you know As Oz said: losing shoes is a fact of playing - who cares as long as you win more than you lose. Maybe nothing works really good for NOR or maybe netbetting or MDB+ would clean up or maybe the best thing is stop and look for a better shoe. All stuff I got from this forum and lots of practise - read, practise, read, practise Turn yourself into a machine that takes money from the casinos not loses it!

Wow man I hate to hear that. This site is about getting the better of the casinos. I've only been playing a short time but picked it up fast with lots of practise. My advice to you stop playing for real or lower your bet size at least. Play all the shoes on this site many different ways and learn the weaknesses and strengths of every system so u know them inside and out. Use or count and sap to determine which system to play and which mode to be in Don't bet a 2 bet until you can win your second bet as a 1. Don't bet a 3 bet until you can win a 2 bet and win your 3rd as a 1 bet. If in doubt bet imaginary or stop playing Stick to stop loss when you hit it that's it your out Play a few online games a day for practise and if you can't win then don't play for real. I will post my play as soon as I can so you can see how I played. I think i did ok.

+34 highest score if switch 345 when going good and then back to 123 when going not so good.

I just played this with F3 and got to a high of +21 and ended on +16. Had we switched to a 345 progression due to number first bets won could have really cleaned up maybe as long as we switched back to 123 when we start losing that high percentage of first bets - maybe 35 ish

Hi bac888 good call to start with f it looks like the right choice. F or strong side should have long streaks on 1 side and 1's and 2's mostly on other side. This shoe does. A few things: you are not incrementing your or count - every repeat it goes 1 negative, and every opposite it goes 1 positive. In this shoe it stays negative the whole time it goes to -7 at end of first column. You are right to choose m3 as streaky shoes or - or count means m3 but why do you switch sides after 2 losing bets? M3 means you don't switch sides intil 3 losing bets meaning you can jump over weak side 2's No need to switch systems you chose the right one - just keep your or count correctly and learn the correct mode play and then nor can handle some bad runs in the shoe. How do you post results like that and I will post my play?