brad01

Lol What are you trying to say oz!

I am mate definitely - who wouldn't want to win $1 mil But slowly and surely - read and practice, read and practice, Then start small - that's where I am at right now. When are you gonna join?

Hamster maybe your casinos shufflers cant put in predetermined order. Maybe they just shuffle. Not every casino is the same but that technology definitely exists and is not new. If you joined the forum you could learn how to pick the bias quickly and what system to use against it. Then if they keep doing the same thing which they usually do you can keep winning

Good call those casino shuffled shoes can be hard to beat.

My casino also uses their own shuffle machines beneath the tables and alternating red and blue card decks for no touch. What happens beneath the table you dont know and cant see but do you really think that technology is new in this day and age? Its not. Ellis has discussed it many times on private forum. He said i hate to tell you guys but shuffle machines dont just shuffle any more they put the cards into predetermined orders. They can even put them into boxed order at the touch of a button. Read the latest post in mdb forum on card shuffles by ellis. Im not making this up i got the informatiin all from this forum by ellis himself. Hand shuffle cant get rid of bias easily and is easy for nor. When this bias shifts several times in a shoe you think its just chance? Its not. You think its chance those patterns last enough to suck you into a betting method and then changes? You think this coincides with the casinos big push of baccarat worldwide? Its not chance. Before they cant win big profits now they can 16% + profits. Did i make that up too? No i got it from this forum from ellis. By the way online casinos still use hand shuffle and i won +16 this morning from nor s40 and it lasted the whole shoe. And i got +2 from mdb at the same time as there is al least 2 - 3 mdb bets in every shoe. Ct70 the switches do not make it easy for nor anymore but you can still win but you have to be smarter and 1 step ahead. I done the nor bootcamp and steve can still show you how to beat every shoe.

Rousey vs Zingano today kachatz1 !! Who are you betting on!

Now the casinos have the technology to put the cards in any order very fast by computer card sorters and they have designers who design shoes which should give them a high win rate and players a hard time. they start out 1 way so you start betting for that pattern then they change so you lose and try and follow the next pattern and then it changes again. They know how long to keep 1 pattern so you will follow but not enough to let you win. Theres ways to win but its harder than normal hand shuffled cards like in the past. Theres not any shoe that cant be beaten so Ellis says. If you know all the info on this site - Nor, mdb, netbet, sap, 4d you can easily find a weakness to beat it maybe in the past you could pick 1 bias and play it thru the whole shoe. not likely any more. 10 years ago there was hardly any baccarat tables on main floor in my casino - now theres heaps. since they figure out how to win they promote them now.

You get more than just the MDB+ system as well - you get access to everything on the forum. I thought it might be worth mentioning that. If MDB+ is how you want to play and it works for you then that is good but there is also information for you to be able to learn and adapt other ways to play Some people are playing MDB+ and other methods at the same time and winning overall from both systems at once!

I got this theory I thought I would share. Singapore shoes appear to be similar to my casino in that they are not always great for MDB+ - I hear many players complain they don't work so well due to high number of 1's , 2's, 3's, compared to 4's and 4+ 's This means we get few opportunities to be the 4's go to 5 and 3's stay 3 - and when we do they are often late in the shoe. Also there is a better chance that the 2's and 3's bets will lose the progression due to many 2's or 3's produced without higher or lower events in between. Could these shoe types be susceptible to F system ? Have we maybe forgotten F system a little due to the introduction of TB4L / S40M1 and also the low number of streaks happening? I know when learning NOR I payed the least attention to it and focused on S40, OTBL, TB4L But I remember Ellis showing how a shoe from Philipines or at least Asia was good for F system within last few weeks Several I tested have worked great for F3 when I was looking at what would work against them. F will win against 1's and 2's easily and hold its own against 3's in F3 and then will clean up on the streaks on either side. I found the shoes tend to favour one side for a while and then switch to the other for a while so F will follow that trend perfectly. 2 Singapore shoes I just tested came out +13 with highest bet of 3, and I waited for the trigger for F until I started as its always easier to play in hindsight and I didn't want to do that. Other one I jumped straight into with F3 and came out +21 with highest bet of 4 - never did I go below -2 and that was right at the start. If we knew these shoes are being produced consistently and F3 works could we jump straight in as a default with caution for a difference and a tight stop loss? I want to test all the Singapore posted shoes to prove or dispel this - theres a few here already posted hope to have time tonight. More shoes from Singapore would be good as Singapore is a 5 hr flight for me and so would really love to figure this out! Look forward to any comments on this. Brad

Fair call Ellis sorry for trying to fool around with your system and thanks for clearing things up for us all. Started out with a few minor tweaks and then got carried away trying to make it win on everything instead of only playing it on the shoes that are suited. Yes I guess that is the big downfall with going straight to MDB+ - its so fast to learn compared to NOR us new guys tend to forget about NOR a little. I've just reread my manual and the NOR bootcamp notes Bighorn the NOR bootcamp is worth it to do in my opinion as it has tips for exactly what you are talking about - I did it and it shows how to deal with these issues. Definitely don't keep betting up as you lose when you are losing more bets than you win and not sure whether your selection is right. Suspend till a paper win or more - nobody says you have to keep betting till you lose all your BR. Post some shoes Bighorn I'm interested to see what Singapore is doing - as soon as I conquer Perth it will be my next stop!

Please post some shoes then which have problems for mdb+ and we will look at them and see if we can modify rules. The shoes below posted are ok

So did the casino withhold the players money at the time of the win? Otherwise how can they get it back? Were they well known players there? They must be to win 1.5 Mill you would of had to have a big bankroll and be prepared to use it fast. Must be high rollers. These guys cheat we all know that and the government will back them up as its revenue stream for them. We just need to find an edge, a weakness, a way to win, a small edge that 99% of players will never see. And use it over and over again.

Hello Simontsui8, welcome to NOR forum. I have been a full member (MDB also) for about 2 months and still I'm not playing for real money yet. There is much information to learn and everything is on here somewhere - you just need to read thru everything again and again. To answer your questions as best I can: 1. U1D1 and U1D2 are betting progressions - negative progressions meaning you increase your bets as you lose U1D1 - you go up 1 unit as you lose and down 1 unit as you win - most agressive U1D2 - you go up 1 unit as you lose and down 2 units as you win - less aggressive NOTHING TO DO WITH MODES The key is right table and system selection so that your hit rate is high - no progression will work unless you have a high hit rate. 2. TB4L - Time Before Last - you bet the same as the result before the last event - also called S40M1 - you go on the run after 1 loss. Used for shoes low in 2's. 3. Post some shoes you played so we can see how you bet and how you lost. Not all shoes are great for NOR anymore - MDB works really good for a lot that NOR doesn't work well for. Also Netbetting. Also join the NOR bootcamp - Steve has practise methods and techniques to deal with those shoes that change. I did it and it covers TB4L and other tips. One of the posts I read recently Ellis said unless you can play all NOR systems, and modes fluently, understand netbetting, SAP, and maybe MDB+, and when to use all of the previous mentioned you don't have the full range of techniques to win at every shoe. 4. In the NOR manual Ellis says he would never lose a bet a 1,2,3 progression unless he had won a 2nd bet first and he knew which mode to be in. Otherwise flat bet or play imaginary - don't play your money when you don't know. I am from Perth, Australia and it is also tough to beat this casino - Australia has tough conditions and their casinos make big profits - I am researching the shoes and the shuffle techniques and recording them to see what they are doing - you must know what they are doing and what they produce to give you an advantage before you play. Post some of the shoes you record and we can look at them. Stop playing for real money until you are confident with everything on here and you can win all the time for practise. Sorry but there are no shortcuts. If it was that easy the casinos would be broke already - you have to put in the time.

Hello Casinofreak, I am a new member only joined 2 months but I spent 4 years deciding whether to join or not. In the end you have to trust the site and the people and spend the $$ to join. They cant give you a trial or otherwise nobody would pay to join and everyone would take the information and claim as their own. - A few years ago there was a free version of System 40 available - that alone could win you more than what you lose if you practised it. It looks like you have done an excellent job of understanding a lot of the info that is available for free but you will never get a full understanding unless you join. That Cockroach Rd etc is not related to this forum - it must be someone else's patterns or system I don't know but I doubt it has anything to do with 4D. Because when I joined it was like the start of preshuffled cards and NOR doesn't perform so well against some of them but MDB+ does so I just made the decision to join up for full membership so I could take advantage of MDB+ I think MDB+ works well against Singapore from some of the players posted results If you were serious about playing you could have a high win rate and build up your bankroll faster and pay the membership off rather than you keep playing and losing and in the end you may have lost your membership fees - I lost about half in the time I was thinking about joining and that was before MDB+ so I could have payed for a full membership with what I lost at that time. I cant make any big claims yet but all I can say is the people and the forum is real and it does work but just takes a lot of practise and to find the right style of play for you. Many people offered to help me but at this point I really don't need it as I am still reading through all the information and understanding everything because there is so much already there. I will post my progress when I have more results but at this point I am not playing for real money just reading and learning at this point. There is many players who are pro / semi pro in different parts of the world on this forum. Maybe I will see you in Singapore one day - Once I play for real it will be my first stop - only a 5 hr flight from Perth and 2 casinos!

But I don't imagine its much point in preshuffling cards like baccarat as blackjack the players can have a bearing on the order the cards come out. The only thing they can do is cheat by reading your cards using new technology and using the shuffler to deal out cards to beat your hand in which case you will never win as its blatant cheating but don't know if theyd do that - or let the cards clump as Ellis says which means they actually don't shuffle them much.

I'm using for practise and thinking of getting account for real. They hand shuffle and seems easy to pick biases

Hi guys what do you think of this casino? It looks legit and pretty honest. Has anyone got bad experiences?

THanks for that Pando. I think MDB+ is such a great system but as you have proven you can make your adjustments if it doesn't work on the cards at your casino so that it does work. My casino also produces cards high in 1's and 2's meaning I have to modify the rules a little also but it can still work.

Yes it is a good topic to have on the public forum in comparism to recent ones I think many of us new members and potential new members would be happy to have this problem!

In relation to your post on taxes it brings up an issue of how do you explain to people what you do for a living? Most people don't regard gambling as an occupation Try going to the bank for a house loan and tell them you play baccarat of craps professionally? I think it would be better to keep quiet about it. Maybe people will assume you deal drugs? We have a law over here if the government suspects you have any assets the government suspects may be from crime and you cant prove how you payed for them they can sieze them.

Does craps still exist much? I know at one point it was the most popular game in USA but I thought it was pretty much dead nowadays. We had 1 table in Australia at my casino and that was closed down years ago. Cant comment on the taxes apart from saying we don't have to worry about that here.

Yeah it does help thanks. I noticed the same thing mdb+ wins but not as well. So in theory nor should work better on these?

Hi guys, I have been watching the shuffle at my local casino and I noticed they all have a bench set up with 2 trays. They open a deck of cards and place in the tray and it lowers down beneath the table. The alternate between red and blue and they hit a button to raise them up. The 2 trays are next to each other on the croupiers left. Does anyone know this procedure and do they know if they are machine shuffled or is it just a card verifier? So would they come pre shuffled from factory and then they are just verified or would they be further shuffled by machine? I cant see what's below there and the reason I ask is this casino's shoes don't look that great for MDB+ so far?

Hello miclus83 Sorry to hear you didn't win in those shoes Actually they are ok for MDB+ and at a quick glance I scored +7, +9, 0, and +7 respectively (in order) I didn't have an losing progressions and only the 3rd shoe ended before I could complete my progression so I broke even. That's an average of +5.75 per shoe with no losing progressions Are you playing your triggers correctly? Also if you want to let a progression run from the start you have to allow 7 units as a stop loss for a worst case you lose your whole progression straight up but I would say that would be very rare - my first hit rate was very high - in the 90% range With hit rates that we get for MDB+ just let your progression go as the chances of losing it should be rare. I would love to come to Singapore and play - its only a 5 hr flight I can post my play results for you when I have more time so you can see how I played them. Brad

How did you find out so much info about the cards Pando? Did you ask somebody at the casino? It prompted me to do some research and found a post that ties in with what you said about your casino being exactly correct: Jaye Woo Croupier at SkyCity Entertainment The recent procedure change at Auckland made it so that Bee and Angel 8-deck preshuffled cards are used straight from the box for Midi-Bac, with a single riffle or chemmy if requested by the player. Saves time, but it's one more thing the dealer and supervisor has to look out for, just in case cards start coming out in sequence and the shoe needs to be swapped. Brad