brad01

Thank Ellis, I think still need more training for NOR and table selection - its coming though. I did think that these didn't look great for MDB+ at the time - amazing that they still came out ahead though! Brad

The odds aren't against you in small business? Start up costs Long hrs unpaid Marketing that you invest in which you never really know whether you will get it back? Possible competition that cant start up under your nose and undercut you? Changing market - new trends or curves that makes your business not viable anymore? Paypal complaints and scams? Credit card fraud? Theft and break ins and insurance claims Big companies ripping you off because they know they can and you cant put up the $$ for a legal challenge to stop them. Staff which don't put In a hard days work and screw things up and you still have to pay them at the end of the week? Account customers not paying and stringing out their accounts for 90 + days leaving your cashflow depleted? Most small businesses fail in the first 5 years - so I wouldn't say the odds are in your favour and its so easy to make big $$ Gambling can be gambling or it can be a business too it depends how you approach it - if you think you have an edge or you can come out ahead then and you invest the time and $$ to learn then why is it any different? 100 people go to work and work for someone every day because they cant be bothered working for themselves or they aren't confident enough to start a business - 1 guy does his research or doesn't want to work for people so starts his own business. 100 people lose at the casino because they hope to win big or cant be bothered to learn a system or have the patience to follow it, 1 guy sees an edge and puts in the time to learn and practise. I don't see its any different and that's my opinion from running my own business for the last 5 years and in that time I've seen some of the most corrupt cheats and lowlifes in this world. Guys that will look you in the eye and tell you they are honest and you can trust them all the while they are trying to scam you and rip you off. Multinationals and big corporations that pray on you and screw you because they can. Since I joined this forum its given me something else to learn and another potential business and it helps to get away from the stress of every day business. All the people here are awesome Way2fasts latest post on private forum was inspiring. Katachtz1 adds humour to things and offers to help guys out and supply's his number In my opinion MDB membership gives you arguably the best system in gambling history and is worth it if you are serious about winning its a small investment to make for what you get but hey its your choice. I will post my progress on this forum though in a few months as a guy who hung here for 3 - 5 years and finally joined.

P21121121141121113112 P22112312752115313 = -1 my play P32127211221312112222 P12311421211221127 = +5 my play Average +2 per shoe with 1 losing progression in shoe 1 They were pre-shuffled and at the time I thought they looked pretty tough - didn't actually play for real but recorded them and played them on paper and actually came out ahead as per above Not sure if they look like great for MDB+ due to all the 1's and 2's There was heaps of chinese players there crowding the tables and overall looked like they were losing pretty bad! Any comments or other players results?

Once again excellent advice from years of experience Ellis. I'm sure many people don't realise how valuable your posts are and on the public forum they are free too. Really hope things get sorted out with Carlos as was planning to join up and learn BJ properly too. Yeah the playing with other peoples money is definitely a no win situation and usually ends in grief.

NOR performs well but require understanding and experience. It takes time to learn everything and probably need to read 3 times or more to understand everything. Once you understand you have to practise it and put into practise. So far for me still learning and practising after few weeks but so far practise on Dublinbet live shows promise and good results. MDB is the thing many are focused on because it is so simple to learn quicker than NOR and so well on preshuffled cards. I learned for 3 weeks and played 10 practise shoes and average 5 units on every 1 - 100% If you are serious to win long term then you should join and if you put in the work you will get it back. I will let you know my results once I play for real money very soon. Brad

Would you have used anything from the 13 1's to trigger a bet? From my limited knowledge of MDB+ it would not be a trigger? Therefore this type of stuff wouldnt affect MDB+ as we wait for specific triggers until we place a bet and ignore anything in between? There are some weird things that seem to happen in these preshuffled shoes like what I said below when the computer program hits a different pattern sequence and they throw in something weird. I'm not sure what the reasoning is - maybe to confuse people or bait people into betting repeats. It sort of works because we are asking the question?

Yes me. I think it got postponed to this weekend though as there were server issues. Will email Steve and let u know. MDB seminar is this weekend too so not sure what I will do

They must be computer generated right? You can see what looks like sections in the shoe where it changes the pattern like its got a bunch of pre programmed patterns and it switches several times throughout the shoe. If you think about the companies who are doing this as a business it must all be automated and run by computers - they feed the cards into the shuffle machines, set the programs and then its spits out decks of preshuffled cards. maybe if we think about how the programs work we can start to see the changes in the shoe - there seems to always be a section with just 1's and 2's and then a section with a few long runs and 1's. What do you think?

Thanks for that Pando it is very valuable advice for me. You seem to have picked up things pretty fast - hopefully I can learn as fast as you. I think to be a good NOR player it takes a while compared to MDB as Ellis says it can be learnt in half an hr. I would say Australian and possibly NZ casinos are tough to beat as they produce tough games. No competition like other parts of the world.

Hi Hamster, thanks for your advice. They do look annoying and slower than other versions but I think they all use preshuffled cards or mostly all and that's what MDB+ thrives on. Based on what I have learnt as a 'payed member' so far (ha. ha. - friendly dig) don't worry about how long it takes to play a shoe or place a bet just pick the game that's the easiest to win at. If you want to win more and your % win rate is good (which it should be for MDB+) then play higher stakes All the best for your playing 2015!

Thanks for you replies. I just want to understand what's going on when I go to play for real money. don't want to piss people off at tables for not knowing the rules.

Are you sure? I thought we would of heard something definite. Where did u hear this?

Yeah it is easy being mechanical but the last 10 shoes were little harder and got stopped out on 2 or 3 of them when they produce 6 2's in a row etc. Think Im gonna go back thru and play them with nor to compare. The casinos are mixing it up well and throwing everything at us.

Hi guys could someone answer the following: What does touch vs no touch game mean? What is the version where the dealer gives the players the cards and they can check them before they are turned over and what difference does that make? Thanks

hi Pando thanks for posting those shoes it gave me easy opportunity to practise mdb+ on these. I played the first 10 so far and results are below. 1. +2 2. +6 3. +4 4. +7 5. +3 6. +4 7. +3 8. +10 9. +9 10. +3 That's an average of 5 units per shoe, no losing shoes, no lost progression, only went to a 4 bet 5 times. I have made a few personal changes - wait for 3 2's as trigger not 2 2's as don't like that trigger much - and a few more. Careful placing bets after event 25 especially when looking for 3+'s as too risky shoe will end before progression. I feel nearly confident to play for real? What does anyone think on the results and is a few weeks too soon?

Hi Pando. How many casinos are there in NZ? Do they all use preshuffled cards? Have you ever played at any casinos in Australia before?

Look at his motto and that might explain it. Maybe he's already playing his holy grail. Average 10 u per shoe x 3 per day = 30 u per day. At $10 min units I'd be more than happy with that. Go up to $25 units and that's awesome money in my book. Could even take a week off or survive a few bad days. Sure anyone could play more and for higher stakes but maybe they don't want the extra stress and attention that goes with it?

I don't know man not been told anything. Ellis's new blackjack is real tho. How u think the casinos can beat everyone easily. Watch his video and you will get it. A few weeks ago Carlos answered my question about auto shufflers so till I'm told otherwise I assume he's still around.

Hi Hamster, I am not full time but I would like to be. I never made any claim that I can beat the game.. Yet but I will definitely post my progress so you can see my success as a result of joining. I did finally fork out the $ and join which by the way is actually less than $1200 if you get a discount and I got an automatic promo discount so it was $1100 for full membership. $USD that is - such a shame the $AUD lost so much ground but that's life. Baccarat guy I never meant to accuse you of trying to get a handout. I respect your decision to not join at this point I was actually trying to be constructive and say that theres probably enough free promo videos on here and YouTube to pick up some basics and w.ith some practise win more than you lose - I'd know as I surfed this forum for 3 -5 years before I joined.

U think the casinos are crooks tho Man U should see some of the crooks I deal with every day running a business. Customers and suppliers! It's no fun.

Sure he's around man. Not sure how much support he's getting on private forum.

baccaratguy you must understand that in the 3 years I surfed the public part of this forum before joining I have seen a large number of guys try and gouge at this site for free info and claim they were members etc Members are just wary that you might be expecting or trying to get something for nothing. If you were a member Keith will sort it out - I had a few issues with payment confirmation and he sorted it out straight away. If your after advice on how to get started without paying then: I would say there is enough free promo videos on this site and you tube about nor and netbetting to enable you to understand basics and make money. If you practise the stuff and set a win goal the same as loss limit I reckon you would win more sessions than you lose meaning you will make money - imagine what you could do if you understood all the techniques When you get serious about winning though like I did then I recommend you join. it is seriously a small price to pay for what you will have access to. MDB is such an awesome system man - so simple but so effective. All the best

That's what I thought! (SDR / BMB) Thanks for the advice offer though! Brad

Has anyone heard of this guy and read his book? Maybe Ellis has as the book was written a while ago. I read it and enjoyed the story but it seemed to be exactly that as his whole approach was a reverse labouchere cancellation system where your aim is 5 units. He basically claimed that it was so robust you didn't need to worry about bet selection. Imagine my disappointment when I went down the casino with the 200 unit bankroll and won a few sequences and then got into the series from hell and the bet sizes increased until I lost nearly the whole lot. If I could turn back the clock I would've joined NOR for about half of that bankroll! Theres mention he was considered as one of the greatest gamblers of all time?

I would say I definitely will be able to from what I have read so far. But I'm still reading thru and understanding everything and then have to start testing and then will go play. But seriously if you couldn't win from all those tools u just said there would be something wrong. Will definitely keep u posted with how I go.