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Sometimes they are the same, sometimes they are different. Sometimes they change color right before your eyes.....look closely cause the magic is right before you.......one time the Players at the table were yelling for a monkey and sure as hell the card turn right into a monkey.....it jumped at the cocktail waitress in a thong....

Ellis I'm doing it against the same brand Seminole hard rock at each of their 3 casinos. Different days and times. But I agree with what you are saying. At Gold Coast I kill it there playing nor+ and s40. Man do I love the Gold Coast and boy do I miss it. And yes I am playing what I have learned right here......playing it live after my testing was completed.

Whoa whoa whoa hamster right there....first of all it isn't a holy grail by the shear definition because it does lose some shoes. A holy grail wins every shoe.....I do not. Let's call it a playing method that I use that simply wins more shoes than I lose. But holy grail....no way. I wish but no way. There are plenty of people who are able to win more shoes than they lose. They have all posted here on this forum as well. Many others have and do do it. They have said so in their posts. I'm not alone but one of many. And I respect each and everyone of them because they put the time in to find what works for them. I just thought of 12 individuals. I play on average 3 a day for many reasons. 5 days a week. I take off 2 so I don't burn out. Also 3 shoes is a 4 hour commitment at least. One is life balance. I have a lot going on in my personal life and also my social life. It isn't all about baccarat but 95% lol. Secondly, I am growing a bankroll for a lifetime. Lastly, brad is absolutely correct. 1000%. I have found a playing method I like. So I continue to practice it, work on it, improve it each and every day. Norm once said he spent more time practicing his method than live games. Talk about dedication!!! So with my playing method, I can grow it. Meaning my short term goal is to be betting blacks, then I want to move up to purple. Then I want to play orange. A nice slow progression up in chip denomination while protecting my bankroll. I am using the leveling up method....start at 10 then 15 then 20 then 25 then 30 then 35......by the time I am up there I have played a lot and practiced a lot and I can be comfortable with betting blacks and purples without destroying my bankroll. Eventually, if the train keeps rolling things might look differently and I might make some changes, but for today 3 shoes is plenty for me.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! It's that time again to reflect upon the last year of playing. Norm once told me that every visit, every trip is an opportunity to learn something about either the game of baccarat or your own personal play....something can be learned each and every time. More importantly is looking over the last year, reflecting on things, what would you like to change or improve on? How do we get better, what do we make resolutions on to improve our game so we can " Beat the Casino" ? Here is my list..... 1. Improve my patience.....when in doubt, wait it out 2. Discipline-being willing to accept losing shoes are a part of the game. Can't have all winning shoes. Minimize my losses and accept them. Even Ellis had losing days sometimes playing blackjack. 3. Proper money management.....be happy and be humble and accept winning even 2 units a shoe. Don't turn a winning shoe into a losing one. Better to win 2 units than lose 2 units. Additionally outside of the game is my personal homework and practice. Spending more time learning than playing. 1. Never stop learning 2. Continue to build personal life long relationships with others So what is yours??

Hamster No my average is a bit above 14 but I rounded down to 14. My stop loss is close to that. After commission and my losses. I don't play a long progression. I do have losing shoes at a rate of about 2 per 10. My running net is 14 per shoe not the 9.6 If I play 3 shoes a day x 5 days a week x 10 years is like 7500 shoes so I'll never get to 40000 shoes. So I may not be able to say I beat the game but I can say with patience, discipline and money management I have a fighting chance to win each day and that's all I can hope for is a fighting chance. So long as the good days exceed the bad one how can I complain.

But OZ does it also play music with song lyrics too?

Hamster, I guess that depends on what you define as beating the game.... 40,000 hands seems a lot and isn't how I define beating the game. For instance if I average 14 units per shoe and win 8 out of 10 shoes, then I would consider this as beating the game. And you can do 14 units using the methods taught here.

Baccarat guy, not for nothing....but let me get this straight. You come on to this forum not as a member, but just to tell everyone your going to be a member, but not right now? So, what's the point of you telling us this? Then some paid member...read paid his dues...read helped Ellis formulate a plan of attack, offers to help with any questions you may have and even gives you the opportunity to call him....FYI not many members post phone number or are this transparent.... Then you pass judgement about his mental capacity and use of song lyrics to get you or perhaps others to think about things instead of spoon feeding it to you...yes to use your mind and think........and you cast stones at others. How is that ? Yes on the paid side members do share knowledge and discussions with one another...... Truth be told, it was through the paid side and the members here that have helped me ....so perhaps you are right, we are missing the reason for this thread...by all means please enlighten us with something other than your expert opinion on the marketing side of BTC and how you view posting to be doing an injustice, ....yes please let us ALL know the purpose for you telling us you are starting again.....

Dammit oz, you beat me to it and here I was thinking the answer was not all cocktail waitress wear thongs....

Wow...Kevin really puts himself out there.....que theme from toy story.....YOU GOT A FRIEND IN ME........ Wonder why Kevin does that for others...offers to help you if you need him...hmmmm let's see..made 10k playing 4d learned here....uses confusiious references and justin bieber songs lyrics with the doors and earth wind and fire to boot..... Wonder why....let's see helps others, makes 10k hmmmm Is this some sorta global karma thing here...paying it forward.....winning ....helping others....duh winning.... Perhaps Kevin has the right idea.....is he the master of his own domain?

Yes but there wasn't a roo reference here anywhere.....

Still no rules, maybe for New Years, but sure as heck wasn't for Christmas....

Not that I've seen yet

Kachatz1 That is a good point.....in fact it may just be the million dollar question......now what......it certainly has me thinking....

K-dog Well besides having a playing method with a bet selection that hits less times than Wilt Chamberlain at a women's college basketball game, I would have to say the single most devastating thing to our bankroll would be........insert drum roll here.......... Poor Money Management So what is the broader point?

K-dog You do know south beach Denny's was the first to introduce moons over miami hammy right....way back in the early 60s when Sinatra played baccarat at the hard rock.....it's was then he ordered a dry martini and a moons over my hammy....but he was a few Roos short of a hockey team....still waiting for oz's translation. Ah the negative progression "love train"giving me many happy returns.....the gift that keeps on giving......come on aboard the love train....its a soul train.... You do remember earth wind and fire and the temptations singing about NOR in Philadelphia on the SOUL TRAIN dontcha.... Confusious says he must first own NOR to understand NOR......

Ellis hasn't yet posted the rules for nb 2 hi yet

Ellis I thought that was the playing method for 2hi.........so I'll hold my horses till you post them...my bad

That's what I was thinking....waiting to hear how Ellis plays this....perhaps more rules are needed....like after 2 losses in a row, we wait one hand....

Wow now that's a shoe .......insert up as you win here.....two words high limit

What do we do if a side loses 2 and we switch and it loses 2 more iar?

Mvs, Good morning. Just curious if your stop win is at +6, what is your hard limit stop loss per shoe? Thanks T

I'm very curious how you play them at the rock

Gman I had the same results as you on my tests...there is a small piece that's being missed...maybe with the prim prog...maybe we need to go 112 or 011

Thanks Wendell it most certainly did help a lot now I'm back on track