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We started that shoe at play 2 how did we know what type of shoe it was going to be or do we always start out playing it as if it was?

Yes I agree

Not the BTC oz here, I was talking about the wizard of oz...,,unless the BTC oz is the wizard of oz

Ellis, This is an excellent post and great explanation of 4d or s4d. Our goal is to try to see which count is moving where because like you said one movement causes movement in others. With a progression-it may not always win the 3bet but often it does. Getting to only +5 is very attainable. Is +5 good enough per shoe? I believe so. I think it's better to up your chip count than up your expected return. Is +5 per shoe betting black enough for me? That's 500 shoe. What about +5 purple that's 2500 +5 orange that's 5k per shoe Ya I like +5 per shoe since it's attainable But what's our stop ? -8?????

Exactly exposed for what he was, the was no oz, and there is no oz, but there is fools gold and butter.....

More like toto I think

Ellis, jay bird, quiz When playing s4d going for a goal of +5 what is everyone using as a stop loss per shoe? Thanks

Yo kramden I gotcha but that's how I would play it......I need a card, get organized etc......so I have no history of table for my 4d I'm going into this blind but it looks like a run of 2s to me......might turn into s40 or a obt4l shoe......won't know till I write it all down..... Now you know how I would play it, how would you play it if you were me trying to tell you what you wanna hear? Lol just messing with ya..... Actually I saw this shoe yesterday it goes on for 5 p then 4b then p b p then 6 b

If I just walked up to this table.....and saw this on the tote board, then I bet b because of the run of 2's. However I flat bet one unit because I'm am not in profit yet. This is a new bet, I haven't filled out my 4d card yet so just a one unit bet for now until I profit. But if I was in profit it's a 1-2, maybe one day a 1-3 when I have learned all that I am to learn

I bet p to follow the run of chops one unit only, then wait and see

I am wondering when will we see willie wonka references......or at least an oompah loompa or two. The ship isn't sinking, we just got a bit of course, delayed in customs.... Onward and upward Kdawg

Yes mod the tables are the classic in Hollywood definitely have different shuffle techniques or outcomes than the big hard rock next door. At least that's what I have found. The classics 10 dollar tables are great for learning on and getting your feet wet.

im confused Brendan what are your thoughts?

Amen zebra

Note: this is from David Gunas jr. A systems seller and snake charmer.....google him, read what others have said.....I have had bad experiences with him trying to sell methods that do not work. Be careful what he is trying to sell you.

Sam Why shouldn't this post be here....FYI I used to play there a lot.....

Sam, What determines if a post is junk? Who decides if a post is relevant to me? Much of my learnings have come from such posts. Your junk, well it's my treasure. Your irrelevant posts are important to me. Many times an irrelevant post makes me stop, take a break , ponder and learn more learn more about the whys are as kramden says.... Some of my best learnings thus far come from within a post that never should have been there....but a member who is more knowledgeable than I took the time to impart some knowledge and wisdom .....yes that's right, they took their time to write something so that I may learn it.... BY THE WAY-many members/pros here tell me they often go back to reread old posts to continue their learnings, did they forget something, need a fine tune up etc. I get that it is frustrating to you...but just having a thread with NOR and results and playing methods without any of the comments feedback banter...well that just seems a bit boring to me. Take the time to read thru the posts and you decide what is relevant to you or not-save what you what don't save what you don't want. Perhaps it's time for us to stop, be grateful and thank the many pros that have taken their valuable time to help others. Thank you guys!!! So Sam, take the time to read and wonder your way around the posts. It's like a Forrest of knowledge, not meant to be a highway straight to the casinos. Take the time to prepare yourself and learn along the way. And realize this is a journey, not a sprint....and as such make the most of it, smile and be grateful to others....... Disney once said....life is what you choose to make it......choose your happily ever after...

Sambo.... Been there still do that at times....from my experience you gotta dive right in...read, practice, read some more...practice even more....I talk to pros here who tell me they often go back and reread old post....then practice more....ASK QUESTIONS....the members here who have been here for years are awesome and so very giving of their time and their understandings...they too are here to help. That's what makes BTC so special ....people actually want to help others cause theyve been where you and I are.....then one day 4 years from now it will be our turn to give back......

Awesome article Ellis, thank you so very much....

Yes Gentling group that bought the old Miami herald building on the new river is now using Bimini boats for Bimini or day cruises. The property they now own will be turned into a casino very shortly. Looks like they are going to petition the state to open up 8 more licenses in 2014. There is also talk that the Seminole tribe has an interest in non card games....ie craps and roulette and I am told the state wants a ton of cash that the Seminoles may pay it to get the non card games. The Seminole license ends in 2014 and that's why the state may open up 8 more licenses or allow 8 more casino""

I hear ya Norm, But competition is coming to Florida very very soon. Then things change.

And a witty dealer without attitude......

Merry Christmas everyone.......

Hi Everyone. Just curious as I get to know more and more of you guys, wondering if anyone might be interested in a southern meet? Perhaps in March or April? Perhaps in Bilouxi? Hard Rock in Tampa? Anyone interested?

Hi Wendell Thanks so much for the info I appreciate it. I'm going to download it and will let others know if it works. Todd