# Live Shoes - Post Your Shoes Here

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Paul

Maybe this will help. This is an old post that I saved.

We use 4 columns The first thing in each column is either B or P depending on what the first hand starts with. Then we just list the events (1, 2's 3's etc.) So B21234211112 would be BB P BB PPP BBBB PP B P B P BB. Each column except the last will add up to 20 hands. Here's a full example for the Corrected shoe Ellis just completed:

P121113211115

P11223122114

B332111111321

P11141121

Max

i've have been planning to join the private forum for some time.

i have tried to post the shoes you show in the public forum and find i can not post to my card because i find an in balance between the Bank hands and Players hands.

if i can't understand a simple posting of Bank Player hands i feel i wont understand the private forum.

Is there an explaination of your display? Can you show the game with the score card Bank hands on top with the following Player hands on the bottom? This will be only about 20 entries each accross the page.

i interpret the numerals shown, as the number of consecutive wins for Bank or Player at that delivery point in the game. The number of Bank and Player ENTRIES should be equal, adjusting for the opening hand on Player and the last hand be it Bank or Player. Ofcourse the total win score for Bank

will be inderpendent of the Player win total. The volume of Bank entries per delivery and Player entries

should be equal (plus or minus one).

Can it be you are posting partial shoes?

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• 3 weeks later...
• Replies 96
• Created

#### Posted Images

Here's a great piece of shuffling by Bet Phoenix tonight.

Not a single in there until hand 43!!! Woo-Hoo! (Especially if you're a Mav or streak player)

Plot this one on your sheet and find the first "one"!!

MVS

Bet Phoenix July 30, 2010 9:30pm

B236531

P142322321

P2121111614

B231222

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• 1 month later...

Well, for those of you who still read this section and can use a live shoe, here's one from last night's session.

Looks like they got a little of everything in this one, so we had that going for us.

MVS

Bet Phoenix 09-26-2010 PM session

P2121631211

P4112471

B2146111112

B1122

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It's been a good week so far. Another good shoe played this afternoon.

Heck, anytime I've got free time to post up these shoes is good!

MVS

Bet Phoenix Sept 28, 2010 4pm

B124841

B14126222

P113126222

B21421

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• Users

Funny MVS I played this same shoe today.

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Gave this a shot with Mav, knowing that is how Andy plays to see how close i could come. Will try to post the shoe later; having some problem with my scanner.

Started a on hand 8 (one hand earlier than I should have - mistake #1)

Stuck with RDH all the way

At hand 19 hit a +14 and decided to protect +10 units.

At hand 25 hit 19 and decided to protect +15 units.

At hand 26 hit +17 with a two unit loss. Next bet (3 units) would have put me below the +15 I tried to protect and exited here with +17

After that RDH continued to loose and got doen to +5 but came back strong from hands 30 through 34.

Continued with RDH and ended up with +24 units at hand 50.

Andy - any comments appreciated!!!!

It's been a good week so far. Another good shoe played this afternoon.

Heck, anytime I've got free time to post up these shoes is good!

MVS

Bet Phoenix Sept 28, 2010 4pm

B124841

B14126222

P113126222

B21421

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Max,

I saw your scanned play and all I can say is that a streaky shoe is God's gift to the baccarat player!!

RD1 all the way is how I saw it also.

Nicely done.

Edited by MVSeahog
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• 3 weeks later...
• Users

Can anyone tell me where the Advanced System 40 scorecards are posted from the recent trip to the Hollywood casino? I got an email stating: "Our actual score cards are posted on my

public forum for all to see http://beatthecasino.com You can see exactly what we did. We played Advanced System 40 exactly to the rules and complete instruction posted on my private forum.

For those who master it, it is the only system you will ever need. You can't learn it by studying the score cards. But precise instruction on Advanced System 40 is included with our System 40

manual."

Would like to check them out-

thanks

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Some infinite genius posted the rules on the thread top so we had to remove them here are some of them

HAHAHA

~k

```You can tell the winners and honest players by how many times they admit they lost
not by how many times they say they won.```

Need Information Messenger

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• Users

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But our discussion under the shoes got far too technical for the public forum. BTW Keith, did that discussion make it to the private forum somewhere?

I wanted them up esp for the guys at BF. But a couple of those guys accused us of making them up. Some there think it impossible to win at Baccarat yet they play anyway. Sample shoes won't help that mentality. Perhaps a frontal lobotomy.

But most there know the truth and we get many of our members through BF. Other than that, their forum is a complete waste of time. They are not even up to where we were 30 years ago.

Edited by ECD
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Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But our discussion under the shoes got far too technical for the public forum. BTW Keith, did that discussion make it to the private forum somewhere?

Ellis,

Yes, they are in the System 40 main thread under the Hollywood sub-thread.

MVS

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Thanks MVS! You'd think I would know that. But I must preserve what's left of my brain for the most pertinent stuff.

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• 4 weeks later...
• Users

dear all

please could you help?

wondering what I can do for this, esp the 3s at the back. If i were to amend my LC=4 to LC=3 after the appearance of the first Streak of 4, i would have been in some deep trouble?

cheers and best of luck at the tables!

regards,

a8

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dear all

please could you help?

wondering what I can do for this, esp the 3s at the back. If i were to amend my LC=4 to LC=3 after the appearance of the first Streak of 4, i would have been in some deep trouble?

cheers and best of luck at the tables!

regards,

a8

Good posting job Ace. Except its better to make your cols 20 plays long, although it fits better the way you did it.

Your shoe is a perfect example of what I'm talking about over on the S40A Questios thread. An OR count that goes nowhere and keeps crossing 0. This count is screaming at you to play OTB4L. So I played it straight OTB4L all the way with no OTR (on the run) bets whatsoever. Played U1D2 M2 it scores +36 (stopping 2 plays from the end) with a highest bet of 4. PERFECT. Played straight OTB4L with a 345 limited it scores +44 stopping the same place with a high bet of 5.

So how did I know to do that. EASY

The OR count goes nowhere actually staying between +2 and -2 the whole shoe with lots of 0s.

The shoe is full of 2s and 3s which OTB4L loves.

No rocket science here.

Also, the table is VERY likely to stay that way because it is exactly what casinos strive for. WE will definitely be the ONLY winners at that table. Just as you found by trying to make 40 fit an obvious OTB4L shoe.

Edited by ECD
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• Users

Ellis.........it would seem on a long streak you could lose a lot of money if you just keep betting otb4l. Why didn't you use otr whenever appropriate. I see during the course of the shoe you did have 3's LC. Why keep betting against that?

Good posting job Ace. Except its better to make your cols 20 plays long, although it fits better the way you did it.

Your shoe is a perfect example of what I'm talking about over on the S40A Questios thread. An OR count that goes nowhere and keeps crossing 0. This count is screaming at you to play OTB4L. So I played it straight OTB4L all the way with no OTR (on the run) bets whatsoever. Played U1D2 M2 it scores +36 (stopping 2 plays from the end) with a highest bet of 4. PERFECT. Played straight OTB4L with a 345 limited it scores +44 stopping the same place with a high bet of 5.

So how did I know to do that. EASY

The OR count goes nowhere actually staying between +2 and -2 the whole shoe with lots of 0s.

The shoe is full of 2s and 3s which OTB4L loves.

No rocket science here.

Also, the table is VERY likely to stay that way because it is exactly what casinos strive for. WE will definitely be the ONLY winners at that table. Just as you found by trying to make 40 fit an obvious OTB4L shoe.

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• Users

thanks Ellis for your prompt response!

you advised to play OTB4L upon seeing such a shoe, but this is from a retrospective view after the whole game.

according to your experience, during the game itself, which hand do i have the make the big decision to switch systems?

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thanks Ellis for your prompt response!

you advised to play OTB4L upon seeing such a shoe, but this is from a retrospective view after the whole game.

according to your experience, during the game itself, which hand do i have the make the big decision to switch systems?

Right and also note Jersey's response which is also correct and valid.

Usually you have several clues even before you sit down to the table. In the 11 Hollywood games we always knew which system we were going to play before we ever sat down. We were right about 80% of the time and quickly corrected on the others. We were playing with many years of casino savvy. But it is not that mysterious and easy to learn W/O years of experience.

First, we already knew from Keith's prior trips to this casino that the card prep strongly favored chop. So on the first shoe after the morning card prep (first shoe dealt with brand new prepped cards) we played 40. We were right both days.

Now the morning card prep bias, esp if it is strong, which it was, is usually good for 3 shoes and sometimes 4. So from there we watched for the worm to turn and we kept track of what each color was doing. Usually both colors were doing the same thing but not always. Sometimes we ended up playing 40 on the blue shoe and F2 on the red shoe.

When we took breaks we always knew the color of the shoe we left on. When we returned therefore we always knew how many shoes we missed. It was usually only one shoe so when we returned we are now playing the next shoe of the color we just left an hour ago. So we knew what to start with.

But don't get fooled. One time we left and the whole table stopped so we returned to the latter portion of the very same shoe we had been playing. It had been a tough shoe so we asked for and got a shuffle. This put us right back to the easier of the two colors. A little casino savvy can go a long way.

Now, of course we didn't tell the dealer why we wanted a shuffle. So when he called the pit boss over we simply said look, we only have time for one more shoe so we'd rather play a complete shoe rather tham waste our time on this partial shoe. So, of course the pit boss obliged us and we killed the new shoe just as we knew we would. Then we stayed for the tough shoe but knew to get out as soon as we hit +25. We left and came back just in time for the easy color and killed it again. That is what I mean by casino savvy.

Now, back to your question. Once you have been dealing with the OR count for years, as we have, It becomes pretty much predictable. A count that starts out North USUALLY continues North. Likewise a count that starts out South USUALLY continues to go SOUTH. AND a count that starts out not going anywhere USUALLY continues to go nowhere. In other words there is a very strong tendency for:

S 40 shoes to stay S 40

F2 shoes to stay F2

And OTB4L to stay OTB4L

Your shoe is not an exception. You shoe is a manisfestation of the general rule.

OF course most shoes do not stay as perfect as yours did. Most have a deviation or two.

That is exactly why 40, a chop system, is designed to handle excursions into streak territory as long as we don't start getting straight runs following straight runs (RD1).

F2 is a streak system but also does very well in ZZ and single 1's and usually also in the 212s.

OTB4L is primarily a neutral system but also handles excursions in streak or chop.

So, you could say that S40A is composed of cover your ass systems with the possible exception of RD1. RD1 hates 1's but yet it can deal with them up to a point. 1's are half of all events so we will likely end up playing RD1 the least. (only in straight runs following straight runs which is the same exact thing as a shortage of 1's = RD 1) Recognize that a shortage of 1's also means its streaky.

As you go you will automatically learn to associate shoe types with systems. This will eventually become second nature. Just a glance at a toteboard or a player's card.

Now, Jersey is right, I played your shoe in a very dangerous fashion. But as I mentioned before, I sometimes play new cards this same way when I've been seeing high + OT counts on new cards. Why take a chance on betting on runs if you simply aren't seeing any. You may be better off to stick with OTB4Land stop betting at a certain point and wait for the run to end. Your shoe just never got to that point. This is quite common esp. on new cards. Remember that OTB4L is ON a straight run one play longer than System 40 is anyway.

But, should you always play OTB4L that way? Hell no! It would be far too risky just as Jersey says.

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thanks Ellis for your comment/explanation and opinion...

over here in Singapore, there's 3 of us playing and finding it difficult to predict whether a new shoe is Choppy or Streaky.

it can be be extremely choppy this shoe at the same table, slightly streaky the next, and then hit Neutral and keep crossing Zero.

as much as we understand there is no One Size Fits All system to Baccarat... we r finding it tough. and unable to determine a Trigger Point to swop systems. its based on experience i presume? would u have any advice?

but seriously we love System 40, it worked awfully well at tables with only 1s 2s 3s and LC = 4. laughing our way to the Cashiers.

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thanks Ellis for your comment/explanation and opinion...

over here in Singapore, there's 3 of us playing and finding it difficult to predict whether a new shoe is Choppy or Streaky.

it can be be extremely choppy this shoe at the same table, slightly streaky the next, and then hit Neutral and keep crossing Zero.

as much as we understand there is no One Size Fits All system to Baccarat... we r finding it tough. and unable to determine a Trigger Point to swop systems. its based on experience i presume? would u have any advice?

but seriously we love System 40, it worked awfully well at tables with only 1s 2s 3s and LC = 4. laughing our way to the Cashiers.

There is no question that some casinos are easier to predict than others. Some casinos, the morning card prep produces consistent results and some it does not. Some casinos The blue and red shoes consistently do the same thing and some they do not.

So clearly some casinos you can get the added advantage of pre shoe prediction to various degrees and some you cannot.

Fortunately predicting shoe type prior to the start of the shoe is not a prerequisite of system 40A. It is merely added advantage.

The next best thing is to go deeper in the shoe before you start any serious betting. The important thing is don't start betting before you have a good idea of shoe type. Some casinos this is play 2. Others it might be as late as play 20.

When you think about it, it really makes little difference as long as you wait until you know.

Unless you grasp control of it TIME is decidedly on the side of the casino.

So the question is HOW do you make time work for YOU instead of the casino???

1.) Don't bet until you have a clear indication.

2.) Only play the easiest tables.

3.) Quit tough shoes as early as possible.

4.) AND very important! DON'T think in terms of units per hour. This is the downfall of many players.

It is not a dollars per hour type of job. It is a job of matching wits with the casino. Shoe win rate is EVERYTHING. And you win the most shoes by abiding by the above rules.

So, you guys have to wait longer. Then that is exactly what you do. NEVER give yourself an excuse to lose. Because as soon as you do, that is exactly what you WILL do. Wait until you know. THAT cost you nothing but time. And time is meaningless in a casino. There are no clocks. Put time on YOUR side.

Edited by ECD
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Here's a shoe right off the screen.

Picked up a few units here from BetPhoenix today while chewing my fingernails down to the bone watching the CLE-JETS game.

Bet Phoenix Nov 14, 2010 2pm

P2113411511

B31421222111

P3321111121121

B1

The shoe ended early at hand 62 when the BPH server apparently locked up and the game was over! Checked with the other online, live games and all of them were off also, so it wasn't just me taking all their money that caused the server crash.

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• 1 month later...
• Users

thanks Ellis for your prompt response!

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thanks Ellis for your prompt response!

Keith had what appears to be a good idea when playing such "clueless" tables. Start with F3. (Change sides only when you get a 3 in a row on the other side instead of a 2. The advantage is that F3 beats a whole array of patterns excepting only a 3 in a row on the wrong side. Your chances are great almost no matter what the shoe does. You can start on the strong side as soon as a strong side emerges.

If the shoe stays strong sided, increase your base bet to 2. (234) When changing sides its usually best to go back to your base bet.

It likes just about everything except a runs following runs type of shoe. Here you are better off with RD1 or F2. That is about the rarest of all shoe types but sometimes you get that all day long. It is caused by an insufficient shuffle.

Give F3 a try under such conditions.

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• 3 weeks later...

All,

Had some free time to kill as the wife was at bingo with the girls so I dropped into BetPhoenix around 9pm and played this beauty.

A nice and easy +13 out of it.

Haven't seen that many "3's" in a long, long time!

MVS

Bet Phoenix Jan 12, 2011 9pm

P782111

P11231222114

P13331513

B13433

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All,

Had some free time to kill as the wife was at bingo with the girls so I dropped into BetPhoenix around 9pm and played this beauty.

A nice and easy +13 out of it.

Haven't seen that many "3's" in a long, long time!

MVS

Bet Phoenix Jan 12, 2011 9pm

P782111

P11231222114

P13331513

B13433

Gee, you're going to get me trying it! I've had a long standing personal rule after so many of the first on line casinos cheated so obviously.

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Gee, you're going to get me trying it! I've had a long standing personal rule after so many of the first on line casinos cheated so obviously.

Ellis,

Like most of us playing the online places, it's strictly the LIVE dealt shoes and not the RNG games.

If it starts ugly or the video feed is odd, I just exit the game and come back later, after a good cup of coffee seasoned with a touch of Baileys.

I did have visions of a super streak shoe when it started P78 for sure!!

MVS

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