how to beat this shoes

[William Looi]

can any one show me how to beat this shoe with nor?

b1122511313

b5121112143

b1211252132

[brad01]

Hi William,

I will show how I played it later when I have time to put on excel spreadsheet.

This shoe is:

1's and 1's and 2's = S40

The difficulty is it changes modes between M2 and M3 throughout

I can show you M2 / M3 play and how I play S40 at the moment running a separate progression on the 2+ events so you can actually make units on the 3's, 4's, and 4+'s

That's how Ellis named S40 by playing this way as it enabled him to win 40 shoes in a row.

As long as the shoe is predominantly 1's, and 1's and 2's then this would not be hard to do

If it switches and 1's and 2's don't dominate then you have to change or stop

Hopefully Ellis can comment on this type of secondary progression S40 play too.

[Ntrl9]

William-

If you played MDB+ it would have given you a +6 in this shoe. If you do a SAP count you will see that this shoe is just about perfectly random 14-16-12-16 are the SAP totals.

Ntrl9

[William Looi]

thank for your opinion on this shoe.

[brad01]

Here is how I would have played it following NOR rules don't switch modes once you have made your choice unless you see good reason - start out slow - don't bet until you win a first, don't bet a 2 until you win a 1 or second bet, don't bet a 3rd until you have won a second or 3rd bet - if 3 losses or so go back to imaginary and reassess - don't keep playing and then complain NOR doesn't work

But when you see a good first hot rate and you are playing at 0 or with casinos money don't be scared to go for it - UID2M2 will get you through IF

[brad01]

YOUR HIT RATE IS OK.

With U1D1M2 you should get +10 or better - this one you could quit at +10 or +15 based on half decade rule.

Ntr19 good call on the MDB+ - I was definitely thinking this was was pretty random shoe but I still have a soft spot for NOR and I still think NOR can beat any shoe regardless of random

In worst case you have to flat bet and settle for +5

If the bias doesn't last for whole shoe then you have to pick the change and wait and reassess and play 'a game within a game'

That's the problem nowadays we are often not seeing consistent bias thoughout the shoe so you have to be experienced to navigate through with one approach or you have to figure out how long the bias lasts (how many hands) and then make a few units and sit back and wait for the change and then make a few more

That's pretty much what Oz does I think - hes turned pro with just NOR - MDB+ wasn't around when he turned pro he just figured how to stay ahead with NOR

Whenever I think its too hard I just think of Oz - what a story - an old guy unemployed who turned it around all with what he learnt from this site - he proved it can be done and not only that he made it sound simple.

That should be the motivation for all of us

[William Looi]

thanks very much I learn better with sample like this one

[douglasb53]

Ntrl9, Could you or show Brad how you would play this with MDB? Thanks

[brad01]

on mdb forum yeah

[douglasb53]

Sorry for requesting the MDB shoe posting on this nor forum. I didn't realize I was on the NOR Forum because everyone that had replied to this thread is a MDB member. My bad! I haven't been on here long or much so still learning the forum

Ins and outs as well as how to play. Should I start a new thread on MDB forum or is there already a place that it could be posted? Thanks

[cashout]

Hi Brad,

Is there anyway you can send me the information on the half decade rule so I can look over it. Thanks a million

[Guest]

Hi Brad,

Is there anyway you can send me the information on the half decade rule so I can look over it. Thanks a million

Half decade cash mgt merely means you do not make a bet that could take you below the half decade you are in, in the last column.

Half decades are 5 10 15 20 and so forth. And the 4th col starts at play 60.

So for instance, if you arrive at play 60 with a score of +10, you would quit right there because another bet could take you below the 6 to 10 half decade.

However if you arrive at +12 anywhere in the last col you would shoot for +15 but you would not make a bet that could take you lelow +10.

And if you hit +15, you quit.

Another way of saying it is you "capture" at intervals of 5 10 15 20 25 etc.

This to protect your winnings as the shoe draws to an end.

[brad01]

douglasb53 happy to send it to you as PM

[douglasb53]

That would be great! Thank you

[William Looi]

I got another shoe would like to have experience player to look at and give your opinion how to beat this shoe.

B3513324211

b3231124212111

P22111

I was trying to send the screen capture image but got internet problem

hope to hear from experience member

I was questioning myself is it posible to make a living just by playing baccarat using NOR and MDB+

so what is all experience player view on this matter?

[Guest]

I got another shoe would like to have experience player to look at and give your opinion how to beat this shoe.

B3513324211

b3231124212111

P22111

I was trying to send the screen capture image but got internet problem

hope to hear from experience member

I was questioning myself is it posible to make a living just by playing baccarat using NOR and MDB+

so what is all experience player view on this matter?

First William, put 20 plays per col. when you post shoes. Otherwise good job.

Yes it is possible to make a living with just NOR and MDB+

Especially if you know a few tricks of the trade like the one I'm about to show you.

I mentioned last week in that system selection chart I drew that low 1's are always bet Repeats only.

Low 1's are a gift from the casino.

That table has probably been streaky for a while.

We want to bet aggressive.

Use the 345 in your NOR manual but increase it to 3456 U1D2.

Some of the other guys may have other ideas but I saw

how I would play it right off the bat.

[epstein]

Hi Ellis,

From the sample shoes?

How you decide will do repeat from very beginning?

Usually people thinking S40 or OTB4L, any early sign?

[Ntrl9]

William-

I see that you are a MDB Player.. This is another shoe that is presenting MDB+ signals and you can pick up an easy 4 units If you don't jump on the last set of 2's. Start posting your shoes on the MDB forum so other players can comment on the MDB+ signals that are taking place in the shoes that you are posting...

Ntrl9

[ECD]

William-

I see that you are a MDB Player.. This is another shoe that is presenting MDB+ signals and you can pick up an easy 4 units If you don't jump on the last set of 2's. Start posting your shoes on the MDB forum so other players can comment on the MDB+ signals that are taking place in the shoes that you are posting...

Ntrl9

Yup, easy +4 even with conservative rules (win 4 of 5 bets, for +4). I wouldn't be around for the 2's at the end -- take the +4 and already be on another game.

[Guest]

Hi Ellis,

From the sample shoes?

How you decide will do repeat from very beginning?

Usually people thinking S40 or OTB4L, any early sign?

Well I might not have. Casinos have conditions. Tables have conditions.

Many regular cards casinos start the day choppy from the morning card prep

and then progress to streaky through repetitive play.

A shoe starting with 8 repeats vs 3 opposites didn't likely come out of nowhere.

It was far more likely a product of the table conditions.

So fine, it changed from streaky to choppy. That's what stop wins are for.

If I haden't started at the beginning, I definitely would have started by play 6.

But I start at the beginning of most every shoe I play in regular cards casinos.

BECAUSE I never play in the blind. I always know the conditions I'm up against.

For instance: The 6 shoes I played in the AC exhibition to a 26% P.A.

I started at play 2 every shoe. BECAUSE I already knew the conditions I was playing against.

That's why we are so big on doing a proper table search BEFORE betting money.

Streaky tables are either Repeats against low 1's or TB4L against high 1's.

Of course MDB+ is a totally different story because we are awaiting specific bet signals.

This was an OK MDB+ shoe but it was a great Repeats shoe.

I always go with a shoe's main strength.

And I doubt this shoe came out of a factory cards casino.

Too big a Repeats to Opposites ratio (O/R count) for factory cards

But normal for regular cards.

[epstein]

Usually every new shoes that you play very chopy, right?

How long it will last? after 3-4 games?

In the evening, your shoes mostly getting streaky?

Or maybe become wild shoes, and difficult to beat?

This is very interesting.

So based on your experience when is the best time to beat the Casino?

[Guest]

Usually every new shoes that you play very chopy, right?

How long it will last? after 3-4 games?

In the evening, your shoes mostly getting streaky?

Or maybe become wild shoes, and difficult to beat?

This is very interesting.

So based on your experience when is the best time to beat the Casino?

Early in the morning!

No self-respecting professional player should EVER sit down to a table W/O already knowing

what system he is going to play and usually what Mode he's going to play it in.

When I played Atlantic City full time I knew what kind of shoe their card prep produced in every casino in the city.

Nevertheless I was always there at 7AM to watch the card prep to be sure there were no changes.

That was just my morning session. I played 3 sessions per day but only 4 days per week Mon - Thurs.

The casinos try all their tricks on weekends so I learned to avoid them altogether except Friday morning.

BTW BJ is the most beatable when the cards are random and new cards are the most random you'll see all day.

I watched the BJ card preps as well.

Whenever I was wrong (about 10% of the time) I'd simply switch games.

With that strategy, I never had a losing day in A.C. for 3 years of full time play.

I ended up getting barred from every casino in A.C.

So I played Vegas, then the Gulf Coast, then Tunica - Also the Bahamas.

I used the same strategy in Tunica at Gold Strike / Horseshoe.

I was barred from BJ almost immediately in Tunica.

But at 7AM the cards were always either OTB4L or S40 - never streaky at 7 AM.

They stayed that way for a good 3 shoes but I'd always switch to a new table as the casinos opened them.

So I mostly only played 2 or 3 shoes at the same table before switching to a brand new table - brand new cards.

I bet U1D2. I won about 95% of the shoes to +20 units always quitting at +20 or +21 for 3 years straight.

Once in a while, at a hot table, I'd switch to 3456 U1D2 and go for +30 but never more.

There is a +30 god up there that punishes you for attempting to go more.

I learned that the hard way.

Since I was playing mostly head to head, shoes only took about 20 minutes.

Continuous table play eventually turns the cards streaky.

How long that takes depends on the day of the week and casino crowding.

But as soon as the players are winning at a table - usually because its streaky -

the casino will change cards. So when you play at night you MUST check every table BEFORE you sit down.

Sometimes the red and blue shoes are playing the same and sometimes not.

They might change one color but not the other.

The Pit Boss's main duty is to change cards at tables the casino is losing.

I don't really care if a table is choppy, streaky or neutral

BUT, I won't sit down unless I KNOW which it is.

I often played head to head at 7AM and they'd only give you ONE free hand so I started nearly every shoe at hand 2.

Look, when you are playing full time you have plenty of time for research.

I spent far more time researching than playing.

I never sit down to a table W/O knowing which system is best for that table right now.

I'm a player, not a gambler.

BTW, while they still bar you for winning at BJ

I never heard of anyone ever getting barred for winning at Baccarat.

NOR is based on my 30+ year play experience everywhere except Vegas.

MDB+ is based on my experience in Vegas AFTER they went to factory cards.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ellis

[Guest]

Look guys, here's a question I have for you to contemplate.

I'm 75 years old and diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease - a result of sugar diabetes..

That is a fatal condition and it's just a question of time.

I'll know a little more about how much time I have after they run a kidney function Ultrasound on July 6.

I could spend the rest of my days answering your same questions over and over.

But I think it would be far more advantageous for you if I spent my final days writing a new concise Baccarat manual

geared to PROFESSIONAL play.

The problem with the forum is yes, all the information is there someplace in thousands of pages.

But it is not user friendly or arranged in order of importance.

It is not geared to professional play.

A Pro must first learn casino savvy - I'm good at that.

How to case a casino.

How to know what to play BEFORE you sit down.

The difference between regular and factory cards.

All aspects of NOR including SAP System selection and O/R Mode selectiom.

SAP assisted MDB+

SAP adjusted MDB+ delays.

Betting systems and when to use what.

Such a manual would contain only NOR, MDB+ and SAP assistance.

What exactly does a pro do once he steps foot in a casino?

What is the best use of his time and energy?

Because that's all you need to know to play professionally.

BUT you need to know all aspects of those systems and betting.

Plenty of actual games on score cards with play by play explanations.

Such a manual will take me about 3 months full time - about a hundred pages with index and glossary, plus sample games.

I would make this manual available only in hard copy looseleaf binder.

and sell it and ship it for $500 check.

What do you think? Would you be interested in this or should I just keep dealing with the forum?

For as long as I can at less than minimum wage.

[bluetri]

I'm on board for a purchase, can I lock that price in now? ;-)

[epstein]

I really admire you Mr Davis,

If only I stay nearby USA, I have to pay visit and see the master face to face.

You should have blog about your Journey as Professional Player.

It will inspiring people like me.

I enjoyed watching movie with Casino background,

not just hollywood movie, Hongkong and other Country.

Your wisdom really great.

I feel so lucky find this forum.

Early in the morning!

No self-respecting professional player should EVER sit down to a table W/O already knowing

what system he is going to play and usually what Mode he's going to play it in.

When I played Atlantic City full time I knew what kind of shoe their card prep produced in every casino in the city.

Nevertheless I was always there at 7AM to watch the card prep to be sure there were no changes.

That was just my morning session. I played 3 sessions per day but only 4 days per week Mon - Thurs.

The casinos try all their tricks on weekends so I learned to avoid them altogether except Friday morning.

BTW BJ is the most beatable when the cards are random and new cards are the most random you'll see all day.

I watched the BJ card preps as well.

Whenever I was wrong (about 10% of the time) I'd simply switch games.

With that strategy, I never had a losing day in A.C. for 3 years of full time play.

I ended up getting barred from every casino in A.C.

So I played Vegas, then the Gulf Coast, then Tunica - Also the Bahamas.

I used the same strategy in Tunica at Gold Strike / Horseshoe.

I was barred from BJ almost immediately in Tunica.

But at 7AM the cards were always either OTB4L or S40 - never streaky at 7 AM.

They stayed that way for a good 3 shoes but I'd always switch to a new table as the casinos opened them.

So I mostly only played 2 or 3 shoes at the same table before switching to a brand new table - brand new cards.

I bet U1D2. I won about 95% of the shoes to +20 units always quitting at +20 or +21 for 3 years straight.

Once in a while, at a hot table, I'd switch to 3456 U1D2 and go for +30 but never more.

There is a +30 god up there that punishes you for attempting to go more.

I learned that the hard way.

Since I was playing mostly head to head, shoes only took about 20 minutes.

Continuous table play eventually turns the cards streaky.

How long that takes depends on the day of the week and casino crowding.

But as soon as the players are winning at a table - usually because its streaky -

the casino will change cards. So when you play at night you MUST check every table BEFORE you sit down.

Sometimes the red and blue shoes are playing the same and sometimes not.

They might change one color but not the other.

The Pit Boss's main duty is to change cards at tables the casino is losing.

I don't really care if a table is choppy, streaky or neutral

BUT, I won't sit down unless I KNOW which it is.

I often played head to head at 7AM and they'd only give you ONE free hand so I started nearly every shoe at hand 2.

Look, when you are playing full time you have plenty of time for research.

I spent far more time researching than playing.

I never sit down to a table W/O knowing which system is best for that table right now.

I'm a player, not a gambler.

BTW, while they still bar you for winning at BJ

I never heard of anyone ever getting barred for winning at Baccarat.

NOR is based on my 30+ year play experience everywhere except Vegas.

MDB+ is based on my experience in Vegas AFTER they went to factory cards.