Users Jeremy Posted November 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Hi I am a newbie and have followed most of the posts here. I consider myself a player who understands the basic of opposite, repeat, otbl, tbl, SS, SAP. I have tried the methods shared by the experienced players. I have set very low expectations of winning 3 units per shoe with the recommended methods but I have not been successful in having many winning sessions. However when I read some of the posts by the experienced players, the impression I get is that they win all their sessions with average of more than 5 units per shoe. Sometimes you hear of 10, 20 units per shoe. I like to survey and ask the experienced players what is the realistic winning sessions and average units per shoe? How many years it took u to get there? Eg. 80% of sessions or 9 out of 10 sessions. 10 units average per shoe. This will give newbies what to expect when they embark on the baccarat game hoping to turn it into a full time pro. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Jeremy, Welcome to the forum. Trust me, everyone has those days where you just have to "Tip your cap" and say "You got me". Unfortunately, as a newer player those strings of "Tip your cap" days will be frequent. Consider it your initiation into the game. Everyone here has been at your level and had similar results. You are not going to have tremendous success at this game from the beginning. You have to put your time in and pay your dues like everyone else has. The advantage you have is that you have a great support team to get you to that next level. If you are new and just getting at the concepts you should not be in a casino. PRACTICE PRACTICE . As a building exercise start with this. Use a 25 shoe cycle. Instead of +3 start practicing with +2win/stop with a -4 stop/loss. This will build your confidence up. At the end of your cycle, see how you did. The next 25 shoe cycle do a +3 win/stop and a -6 stop/loss and do the same thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XDN Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 12 hours ago, Jeremy said: Hi I am a newbie and have followed most of the posts here. I consider myself a player who understands the basic of opposite, repeat, otbl, tbl, SS, SAP. I have tried the methods shared by the experienced players. I have set very low expectations of winning 3 units per shoe with the recommended methods but I have not been successful in having many winning sessions. However when I read some of the posts by the experienced players, the impression I get is that they win all their sessions with average of more than 5 units per shoe. Sometimes you hear of 10, 20 units per shoe. I like to survey and ask the experienced players what is the realistic winning sessions and average units per shoe? How many years it took u to get there? Eg. 80% of sessions or 9 out of 10 sessions. 10 units average per shoe. This will give newbies what to expect when they embark on the baccarat game hoping to turn it into a full time pro. Thanks. I've been at it a little over a year am approximately break even with my BR over that time. I have very good stretches and very bad stretches but overall even. It is a little discouraging that I haven't made a big amount of money with the amount of time i've invested BUT.....BUT.....BUT on the other hand. With what i've learned here at BTC, I think that breaking even over 1 year is better than most "gamblers" do (we are players not gamblers). I really feel like next year, I will be able to grow the BR and hang on to the gains. Keep at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnycs1 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 7 hours ago, McVince said: Jeremy, Welcome to the forum. Trust me, everyone has those days where you just have to "Tip your cap" and say "You got me". Unfortunately, as a newer player those strings of "Tip your cap" days will be frequent. Consider it your initiation into the game. Everyone here has been at your level and had similar results. You are not going to have tremendous success at this game from the beginning. You have to put your time in and pay your dues like everyone else has. The advantage you have is that you have a great support team to get you to that next level. If you are new and just getting at the concepts you should not be in a casino. PRACTICE PRACTICE . As a building exercise start with this. Use a 25 shoe cycle. Instead of +3 start practicing with +2win/stop with a -4 stop/loss. This will build your confidence up. At the end of your cycle, see how you did. The next 25 shoe cycle do a +3 win/stop and a -6 stop/loss and do the same thing. Hello Mc..........Think Ellis has "The Key " ......as he claims , with his new MVD method ! Says...all this stuff here , on this forum, that he mostly developed , ....now obsolete !! ??? Any thoughts ? Thanks ....johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The only HG in baccarat is the one you create for yourself! There is more than enough info on this forum to be able to do that There are experienced players here that can help you and point you in the right direction. I've been at it nearly 2 years now so I'm double Xdot and a little less than McVince The first year for me was just a break even as Xdot says while I was deciding what strategy I was going to use and deciding if this game could really be beaten The second year things started to become clearer and then I realised with hard work and practise the game can be beaten and then my motivation and dedication went up I had a target of being full time by the end of this year and I thought I might make it but its looking like it may not happen and one thing I've learned is not to rush things - keep practising and it will happen I would say 2 years is a realistic time frame to be a consistent winner at the game. You could do it faster or it could take you longer but I feel 2 years is average for a dedicated member Pando who joined a few months before me has been my fellow student member for which we share ideas and thoughts - he's from the same part of the world (NZ and I'm from Australia) and I think you'll find he's in a pretty similar position to me in terms of being able to win consistently - I feel a little in front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Jeremy Posted November 18, 2016 Author Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Thanks for all the replies. Brad, if you are winning consistently now, why don't u consider playing full time. What is your criteria to consider playing full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Hi Jeremy Bankroll requirements and unit size which comes down to time Yes that is my goal it takes time and I don't want to push it and put too much pressure on myself Nearly there and also have business to run which consumes a lot of my time so that also puts a restriction on the time I have to practise and play Nearly there 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Jeremy Posted November 18, 2016 Author Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 What is the bankroll and unit size you need to reach to consider playing full time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 $100 units and at least $5000 Not a lot I could do that right now but not comfortable and need a little longer to make the jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Jeremy Posted November 18, 2016 Author Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Slow and steady wins the race 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 11 hours ago, Jeremy said: What is the bankroll and unit size you need to reach to consider playing full time Jeremy/Other BTC Members, That is more of a personal decision. Example, if you are considering playing full time and have a Lamborghini parked in your driveway, I don't think green chips would be enough. lol. You have to consider your financial situation and more important, the quality of your game. It's funny about the financial question. At the Baccarat table, the predominant type of players have a hierachy. They look at the guy who is betting the most money and follow that player blindly. Playing with that type of money doesn't make you the best player (Except Way2Fast). That player just has the most money. Unfortunately, there are some that think that since they joined this (And other) forums and have all the ammunition they will take down the casino. Think of this, if you have all the ammunition to take down a small country and a machine gun but can't hit the side of a barn with the machine gun, what good is the ammunition? You need to practice practice and practice some more and then you can use that ammunition the right way and take down that small country. If you poll the best players on this site, I guarantee you that IN ADDITION TO THEIR GAME they play practice shoes at least a few days a week. I practice every day in addition to playing online. I can tell you that I have played over 1000 practice shoes and (Pardon the Yogi Berraism) they have one thing in common. All of the 1000 shoes were different. In every shoe you will have different problems to get through. All shoes will have the ebbs and flows. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS YOUR JOB THEN YOU NEED TO MAKE IT YOUR JOB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 17 hours ago, johnnycs1 said: Hello Mc..........Think Ellis has "The Key " ......as he claims , with his new MVD method ! Says...all this stuff here , on this forum, that he mostly developed , ....now obsolete !! ??? Any thoughts ? Thanks ....johnny I will say this, I have tremendous difference of opinions with Ellis (Differences that I choose not to discuss). But every time I had a contentious exchange with him I mentioned one thing. I gave him his due. There isn't one person on this site that would be where they are at if it wasn't for Ellis. Ellis has a tremendous mind for the game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Players Wendel Posted November 18, 2016 Legacy Players Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 14 hours ago, Jeremy said: Thanks for all the replies. Brad, if you are winning consistently now, why don't u consider playing full time. What is your criteria to consider playing full time. Hi Jeremy. I think that one should think long and hard before they give up their "day Job" to play professional baccarat. It is the day job that will finance you if the going gets tough. It is the day job that may or may not provide fringe benefits such as extended healthcare.\, not to mention a pension plan. If a player has won the bankroll required to play professionally (for the sake of discussion, $5000) he or she does not have to play a lot @ $100+ to buy some toys and perhaps the financial security to quit his day job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 8 hours ago, McVince said: I will say this, I have tremendous difference of opinions with Ellis (Differences that I choose not to discuss). But every time I had a contentious exchange with him I mentioned one thing. I gave him his due. There isn't one person on this site that would be where they are at if it wasn't for Ellis. Ellis has a tremendous mind for the game. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnycs1 Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 15 hours ago, McVince said: I will say this, I have tremendous difference of opinions with Ellis (Differences that I choose not to discuss). But every time I had a contentious exchange with him I mentioned one thing. I gave him his due. There isn't one person on this site that would be where they are at if it wasn't for Ellis. Ellis has a tremendous mind for the game. THANKS McVINCE... I AGREE......!! HOPE HIS NEW METHOD IS HIS BEST YET AND LIVES UP TO WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT IT !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Well I don't think it will send the casinos broke but it may be worth looking at ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 16 minutes ago, johnnycs1 said: THANKS McVINCE... I AGREE......!! HOPE HIS NEW METHOD IS HIS BEST YET AND LIVES UP TO WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT IT !! Hey Martha...come shut the window...Them thar pigs are flying past again and I don't want them flying inside and spilling my beer. So saying...You are right...I wouldn't be where I am today without Ellis's original teachings...but then along came Norm...and PJ and my Mentor. Ellis is now saying that NOR no longer applies and his new method is the only way...Tell that to my Bank Manager and my Real Estate Agent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Stridergohan Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 2 hours ago, ozscouser1 said: Hey Martha...come shut the window...Them thar pigs are flying past again and I don't want them flying inside and spilling my beer. So saying...You are right...I wouldn't be where I am today without Ellis's original teachings...but then along came Norm...and PJ and my Mentor. Ellis is now saying that NOR no longer applies and his new method is the only way...Tell that to my Bank Manager and my Real Estate Agent. So, you're saying Ellis's older teachings of NOR, net betting, and variations of the two are still applicable to shoes played today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stridergohan said: So, you're saying Ellis's older teachings of NOR, net betting, and variations of the two are still applicable to shoes played today? That's exactly what I'm saying... I play a variation of NOR...Likewise Way2fast...Kachatz1...CT70...Papa Joe...Wolfat...McVince Do you see any losers in that list? Edited November 19, 2016 by ECD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member wolfat Posted November 19, 2016 Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 If I can put my 2 cents in... I think that Ellis has a great mind for baccarat, many good ideas came from him, surely he has had the merit to grow a great site for bac players that allow us to grow in knowledge, ideas, human contacts... What I don't like is selling something claimed everytime like the "final solution" and then showing the same flaw that every system has, his nemesis. I appreciate more an approach like: this system is good but loses to... are you able to manage this situation? You couls do this... or this... what kind of events you usually find in your casino? etc IMO this is a honest approach to people, instead of a permanent work in progress method. I know people paying 1000 bucks for the "Final Word" manual but still not released yet! Not good! Before LCNB was the most powerful weapon, today MvD, tomorrow? IMO better fix some things before thinking to new ones! ....anyway thanks to him and the forum allowing us to meet so many interesting people with the same passion. A 2 Quote bacclover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 19 minutes ago, wolfat said: If I can put my 2 cents in... I think that Ellis has a great mind for baccarat, many good ideas came from him, surely he has had the merit to grow a great site for bac players that allow us to grow in knowledge, ideas, human contacts... What I don't like is selling something claimed everytime like the "final solution" and then showing the same flaw that every system has, his nemesis. I appreciate more an approach like: this system is good but loses to... are you able to manage this situation? You couls do this... or this... what kind of events you usually find in your casino? etc IMO this is a honest approach to people, instead of a permanent work in progress method. I know people paying 1000 bucks for the "Final Word" manual but still not released yet! Not good! Before LCNB was the most powerful weapon, today MvD, tomorrow? IMO better fix some things before thinking to new ones! ....anyway thanks to him and the forum allowing us to meet so many interesting people with the same passion. A Very good explanation, and revelation . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Stridergohan Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 I, too, play a variation of his teachings. Very conservatively, though. Might I ask what your variation is? Or might we exchange ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users Stridergohan Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 9 hours ago, ozscouser1 said: That's exactly what I'm saying... I play a variation of NOR...Likewise Way2fast...Kachatz1...CT70...Papa Joe...Wolfat...McVince Do you see any losers in that list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted November 19, 2016 Users Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 14 hours ago, ozscouser1 said: Ellis is now saying that NOR no longer applies Interesting statement given that the "new" thing uses all the same bet placement techniques as the various NOR systems. New boss same as the old boss? "I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Wash, rinse, and repeat. Dam, now I gotta do my laundry.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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