Fedda

Great, I'm gonna check this out because I like the way RNG are in "practice mode" since we all know it's rigged when going live. Thank you

Interesting, but the most interesting thing must be how the cards are shuffled. Any info on that? Thanks

So basically, we use our SAP-card to choose either SAP or RSAP and stick with it through the shoe until we hit our stop-loss or hopefully stop-win. Or are there situations we would change back and forth within the shoe? I've seen strong NOR/SAP-shoes that in the end sums up to a normal frequencies of occurrence, but the question is, how common are these? And what can we do? Take the loss and move on? /Fredrik

Oz, I understand what you are saying and you're right, It's individual. I think the most successfull players here have made a tweak here and there from the ground concept to fit it a personal system. I was just reacting to some of the junior-members writing about the mathematical FACT that no progression could turn a losing shoe flatbetting into a winner. Maybe I was in a bad mood but some should not be so sure about things they know nothing about.

Why is my example of LWLWLLW a joke? This is a 50/50 game, nothing strange about that. I can see now by your example why you choose to flatbet, I would have been far away from that table after first 3 losses and so should you. Thanks for keeping the casinos alive!

It's a mathematical fact that it's all about the frequencies of the wins and losses! Let's say you're winning and losing every other bet like this.. (LWLWLLW) This is -1 flatbetting. So you are saying that no progression would make this event a winner?! Please remove this thread Ellis to get rid of this nonsense!

Ok, is there any specific condition we don't want to see when playing U3hi? How does it against a shoe where just betting repeats would have been successful? Like B3245141 and so on..

Hi eridu! Have you signed up to MDB+? If NOR doesn't work, MDB+ usually will. It's 100% mechanical and easy to learn.

Wow! Great post! The one thing that scares me with SAP though are those changing biases within the shoe, but maybe you have something in your pocket to work that around? Thanks!

Yeah I see that now. I've tried to avoid MDB+ because this is regular cards. When least expected the two's are coming at full speed! Hmm, maybe I should reconsider.. Thanks.

Hello! I had this shoe yesterday and wonder how you guys would've played it? I think S40m2 would do okay but it's not obvious because of the 3 in the beginning. My online live-dealer casino keeps spitting out these kind of shoes. What's the best way to handle this circumstance? I had a hard time deciding what to play even when it's finished. B1413112142 B121111612112 B1151422122 Thanks. /ff

Do you mean the psychological aspect of the game? Having the right mindset etc.. Is it the greed that's staring at us?

WOW!! It would be intresting to know what kind of bias the shoe produced in the game after. Do I have to ask if it was regular cards?

Great! What kind of shuffle was it? Preshuffled or regular? Flat bet you only gain 1 Unit if the first bet wins, the rest of the bets in the originally prog you only break even or lose 1 Unit. Flat bet is not recommended i think.

Interesting! So you mean that the culprit is a very tight disparity playing NB this way? And if it is a tight disparity between PvB it often means that MBD+ fixes it?

The only way I can come up with is the way Ellis explained it somewhere here. Bet the minimum wager to keep the shoe running and (often opposites if the cards are new preshuffled) then bet the amount you were supposed to according to MBD+.

Mike, I totally agree! I have thought about to make a stop win after a 5 Unit gain. Let's say we hit -3, stop at +2 and so on. It's a very coservative way to play but we could go trough samples and see how it's doing? It's relative common to hit +2 or +3 after a minus run too see that it all goes bad again. In many shoes there are no strengh to hit a +7,+8-run before it turns bad again. A run of +5 are far more common. /Fred

Thanks! I never played SAP the original way but I read somewhere that it averaged +6 with regular cards. That is good enough for me. Is it worth à try? Maybe find some kind of tweak to fit the MDB-plan?

Ellis, for those of us that still play regular card, what's your recommendation here within MBD area? I've thought about reverse the secondary prog but I don't know..?

Ok, did you use any money managment? Let's say if you hit -4 or -5, finish the shoe with any positive result.

Good play Gman! I like the way you're posting the shoes, clean and easy. This is a tough one, must say it's tempting to go OTB4L at play 49 with two's coming fast, but then it's goodbye.. Glenn, I was thinking OTB4L too but I think Ellis said that we go with the highest count which in this case at hand 25 is 4+'s, 4 6 4 (8). That's still S40M1 if I have got it right. In this particular shoe it works out but I know what you mean, the 2's and 3's have the highest number together. Anyway, good job!

Talking about Norm, sometimes I go back and read his forum-posts, they are classics and full of knowledge. I miss him, R.I.P. This +5 strategy could be a kind of dedication to Norm, he's sitting up there and thinking "now they're getting it!"

In Vegas they use factory preshuffled cards which means that we can't use our biggest advantage in a casino (table selection).

Read the article about the party system. There it says, that after 10 hands/ spins and you win a 2 bet you quit. What does that mean

Yeah, maybe he did know what was going on and wanted you to tell him you were playing a system called NOR and is available at beatthecasino.com:biggrin: