rd1 RD1 | N Discussion and Rules ECD Group February 22, 2010

[MVSeahog]

At play 45 you count back 10 decisions and see which is stronger the Red or Black. I counted 7 Red vs. 3 Black starting at play 45 and back.

Yes, I count that the same way and then wondered about the wager at hand 46. The "4" and "5" bets lose but it continues on with a third bet at hand 46.

Is that correct?

MVS

[ECD]

Well, I didn't know what you guys were talking about (until I looked back at the posted image). That was a replay to correct a mistake at hand 23 in the original. I did a cut (with sissors) and tape job to get a quick corrected shoe posted. I must have been on a mental vacation... you're right of course. The posted sample is wrong. I'll correct it by using a new blank scorecard, this time without cutting and taping.

I'll have it done after dinner.

Thanks Guys,

PJ

[res]

PAPAJoe

I have a couple of questions before I test a few shoes tomorrow.

1. If your last 10 events are even (a) would go back a few more decisions ( would you just look at the last few decsions to break the tie

2. Any idea on what the stop loss would be.

3. If you lose the 1,2 and hybernate and then when you get back on and lose the 3,4 do you go to 5 or hybernate again?

[ECD]

PAPAJoe

I have a couple of questions before I test a few shoes tomorrow.

1. If your last 10 events are even (a) would go back a few more decisions ( would you just look at the last few decsions to break the tie

2. Any idea on what the stop loss would be.

3. If you lose the 1,2 and hybernate and then when you get back on and lose the 3,4 do you go to 5 or hybernate again?

Question #1: I would just go ahead and allow the 3rd bet if they were tied. I think we should keep the look back to 10 hands. This way we will all be playing the same rules and get more accurete results.

Question #2: I'm going to use -12. but so far I don't have any losing shoes (12 tested) so it's hard to say.

Question #3: SEE NEXT POST

Thanks,

PJ

[ECD]

OK, that was a great hot dog!

I played this shoe again from the start. Everything is fine until the 3rd column. We hit the wall in the 3rd column because red was super strong thru the entire column, but black kept winning 2 bets then losing 2 bets, in and out of hibernation. That took the score from +22 down to +14 at the end of the 3rd column. And the trend carried into the 4th column, ending with +11.

We can address this by adding a rule like when a hibernating prog resumes betting, if it loses the first two bets and is forced back into hibernation, it must have a paper WWW to resume the next time.

Let’s not add it yet. Ellis will probably want to chime in on this.

Thanks for being persistent here, this may lead to an improvement.

Also see if I have any mistakes on this.

PJ

[ECD]

Another thing I've been thinking about. Andrea PM'd me and mentioned this and Anthony also thought it has merit. Here's the thing:

When a prog is hibernating and gets a WW or WLW, we look back 10 hands and check the colors. IF that prog is still the weak prog we let it sleep. Andrea says "why ber FOR the weak prog to win. Wait till it is the strong prog to resume.

It makes sense to me also. This would have solved the problem in the last shoe nicely. It would end at +20. OR we could do as mentioned in the last post and wait for a WWW, it would end at +23.

Let's think it over for a bit.

I'm heading to Tunica early tomorrow am to give RD1N a good test. Let's wait till I get back to decide. I'll be there a few days. Any forum members who want to look me up, I'll be playing at Gold Strike, wearing a brown baseball cap that says "Mississippi Chocktaw"

PJ

Edited February 26, 2010 by ECD

[wolfat]

Hi PJ,

GL for your trip, I'm in a hurry to read your report!!!

ciao

andrea

[TomM]

PJ,

Likewise. Good luck. Looking forward to your report. SKOR is skip opposte repeat, OTB4L is opposite time before last, what does RD1 stand for?

[ECD]

Repeats except Down under a 1 in a row. RD1N is the same thing Net bet.

[waminc]

PJ,

As I mentioned in my PM, I'm finding RD1N to be very comparable to Mark's Maverick, winning in the mid-teens to the 20's in the few shoes I've tested. I find staying with a 3 as the cap on the prog works very well and keeps this as a 2-hi system. I also score after the WW or WLW on the hibernating side, which means that it is a no-bet (3vs3) or a 1 unit bet (3vs2). If the "weak" side wins I put it back on the count. If it loses, I put it back in hibernation with the same requirement, WW or WLW and then bring it back into play with another 3 unit count. This gives me a chance to see if the weak side is coming back and doing so with a 1 unit bet. The shoe stays in a very controlled mode. It might be too conservative; I don't really know yet. However, I still look at a method that will deliver a solid 8-12 average unit win with the goal of raising my unit to a level that is consistent with the casino I'm playing at. At this early point, I find RD1N as the easiest, nearly mechanical system yet.

Good "hunting" in Tunica. I'm sorry that I can't make it, but I've got Grandfather commitments next week.

Bill

[ECD]

PJ,

As I mentioned in my PM, I'm finding RD1N to be very comparable to Mark's Maverick, winning in the mid-teens to the 20's in the few shoes I've tested. I find staying with a 3 as the cap on the prog works very well and keeps this as a 2-hi system. I also score after the WW or WLW on the hibernating side, which means that it is a no-bet (3vs3) or a 1 unit bet (3vs2). If the "weak" side wins I put it back on the count. If it loses, I put it back in hibernation with the same requirement, WW or WLW and then bring it back into play with another 3 unit count. This gives me a chance to see if the weak side is coming back and doing so with a 1 unit bet. The shoe stays in a very controlled mode. It might be too conservative; I don't really know yet. However, I still look at a method that will deliver a solid 8-12 average unit win with the goal of raising my unit to a level that is consistent with the casino I'm playing at. At this early point, I find RD1N as the easiest, nearly mechanical system yet.

Good "hunting" in Tunica. I'm sorry that I can't make it, but I've got Grandfather commitments next week.

Hi Bill,

I like it a lot. This would give us two choices for the RD1N progression.

I'll run some shoes this way when I return from Tunica.

I'm sorry you can't make it this time. We could do a side by side, shoe by shoe comparison of the two progs.

PJ

[ECD]

I just had to post this before I leave. It is done using Bill's 2 Hi rules. It's res Harrah shoe replayed 2 Hi.

It's so simple yet seems to get great results. Keep in mind this is the first shoe, but I suspect it will hold up in further testing.

With this version, there is no look back for strong side/weak side.

I'll also do some testing this way in Tunica.

Here are the rules for the 2 Hi:

RD1N 2Hi

Both progs are capped at 3. Meaning, the highest table bet will be 2 units.

Begin with the normal 0 vs 0 start betting RD1 vs Anti-RD1 UiD2 No M2. (first table bet at hand 3)

When a side loses 3 bets in a row it goes into hibernation.

After the WW or WLW on the hibernating side, that side resumes at 3. This means that it is a no-bet (3vs3) or a 1 unit bet (3vs2). If the "weak" side wins, it continues betting. If it loses, it goes back into hibernation. This gives us a chance to see if the weak side is coming back and doing so with a 1 unit bet.

That’s it. Thanks Bill!

Mistake alert!! Hand 7 should be a red 1 on bank, hand 8 should be a red 2 on bank. Thanls Tom. I'm not going to redo it I'm going to Tunica! Final score +17.

Edited February 26, 2010 by ECD

[TomM]

Repeats except Down under a 1 in a row. RD1N is the same thing Net bet.

There goes my Research and Development theory all to hell. Anyway when the shoe is producing mostly lone 1's I just took to calling it RD/0 in the M&M shoe thread. Just stay on the strong side and bet straight down if the lone 1's pattern is consistand enough.I used to call that the drop down bet in U2. I'll do anything before committing to TB4L !

Looks like thinking caps are already on squarely here. I'll putter around in the M&M thread awaiting PJ's live report.

[ECD]

Anyway when the shoe is producing mostly lone 1's I just took to calling it RD/0 in the M&M shoe thread. Just stay on the strong side and bet straight down if the lone 1's pattern is consistand enough.

With the 2 Hi version those sporadic 1's can cause a big problem. I like your suggestion to bet straight down on the strong side. We might need a rule (net bet version) to address this.

Meanwhile,I suggest a tighter stop loss with the 2 Hi version, somthing like -8 seems good.

PJ

[killthehouse]

Hi PapaJoe,

I just learnt netbetting from Andrea 9 hours ago and started practising RD1/N. With a few shoes practise and confident of wielding it, i went down to the casino.

I played 4 shoes, results were a mixed bunch. 2 Killer shoes that i had to bail at -18 units and -15 units.1 breakeven shoe at +4. And 1 whooping amazing shoe which net me +34 units.

I'm playing U1D2M2 bet progression and I have a question. Can i unsuspend a strong progression and hibernate a weak progression on the same play? Eg. RD1 progression has lost 2 consecutive bets thus the suspended Anti-RD1 comes into play next turn. But the RD1 progression is the weaker progression in this case and should be suspended next turn. Should i let anti-RD1 come into play next turn and suspend the RD1 the next next turn or in the same turn?

Next are example of the 4 shoes, please try the killer shoes, i believe the U1D2M2 progression caused my loss.

Shoe #1 (+34 units)

B11318723111

P3211211111131

B22111212111312111

Shoe #2 (+4 units)

P12211212211141222

B1112115113332123

B1131131

Shoe #3 (Bail at -18 units)

P153114121122132

B12611211122314323

Shoe #4 (Bail at -15 units around play15-16)

B131212411263323

P112812123121131

B1121

Thank you so much!

Regards,

killthehouse

[ECD]

I just learnt netbetting from Andrea 9 hours ago and started practising RD1/N. With a few shoes practise and confident of wielding it, i went down to the casino.

I played 4 shoes, results were a mixed bunch. 2 Killer shoes that i had to bail at -18 units and -15 units.1 breakeven shoe at +4. And 1 whooping amazing shoe which net me +34 units.

I'm playing U1D2M2 bet progression and I have a question. Can i unsuspend a strong progression and hibernate a weak progression on the same play? Eg. RD1 progression has lost 2 consecutive bets thus the suspended Anti-RD1 comes into play next turn. But the RD1 progression is the weaker progression in this case and should be suspended next turn. Should i let anti-RD1 come into play next turn and suspend the RD1 the next next turn or in the same turn?

Next are example of the 4 shoes, please try the killer shoes, i believe the U1D2M2 progression caused my loss.

Honestly, after learning net betting 9 hrs. ago and only playing a few practice shoes, what results did you expect?

You should play about 25 practice shoes just to see how this or any other system plays.

At least you ended +5 units, but let's pull back on the reigns a little before you go for the jugglar.

I haven't used a U1D2M2 on this system, but that should be no problem if you have the bankroll. You probably had a lot of mistakes in your playing. I use the U1D1 No M2, or you could try the new 2 Hi version which only bets 1 or 2 units per hand until you perfect this system.

Yes you can resume one prog and suspend the next prog in the same play. This happens frequently in the 2 Hi version, when you have the 3 vs 3 bet, one side will resume while the other side hibernates.

I'll be glad to look at the shoes, but you need to list them in BTC shoe column format like B(20 plays) P(20 plays) P(20 plays) B(till the shoe ends). If you relist the shoe this way I can take a look.

Just a reminder "the kitchen table is a much less expensive place to learn a system than the casino table". What you did is common for new members, so don't feel picked on or anything. Just be sure you have the home play under your belt before you commit your bankroll.

PJ

Edited February 26, 2010 by ECD

[ECD]

Shoes from res

Here are two shoes just sent to me by res.

He played them today in LV.

I'm just posting for res. Please address your questions to res.

PJ

Edited February 27, 2010 by ECD

[ECD]

This will be my last post before I leave for Tunica. (I think)

I have to correct the last 2 columns of the RD1N 2Hi example shoe. (post # 87)

When I played it and a side was hibernating I watched very carefully for the WW so I could bring the hibernating side back at 3 and if it won it kept betting, if it lost it goes back to hibernating. COOL!

WHAT I FORGOT WAS TO LOOK FOR THE W-L-W. I just had to show you the difference that made. So, be very careful to spot the WW AND WLW when resuming the hibernating side.

You can look back to post 87 and see what I mean.

PJ

Edited February 27, 2010 by ECD

[killthehouse]

Honestly, after learning net betting 9 hrs. ago and only playing a few practice shoes, what results did you expect?

You should play about 25 practice shoes just to see how this or any other system plays.

At least you ended +5 units, but let's pull back on the reigns a little before you go for the jugglar.

I haven't used a U1D2M2 on this system, but that should be no problem if you have the bankroll. You probably had a lot of mistakes in your playing. I use the U1D1 No M2, or you could try the new 2 Hi version which only bets 1 or 2 units per hand until you perfect this system.

Yes you can resume one prog and suspend the next prog in the same play. This happens frequently in the 2 Hi version, when you have the 3 vs 3 bet, one side will resume while the other side hibernates.

I'll be glad to look at the shoes, but you need to list them in BTC shoe column format like B(20 plays) P(20 plays) P(20 plays) B(till the shoe ends). If you relist the shoe this way I can take a look.

Just a reminder "the kitchen table is a much less expensive place to learn a system than the casino table". What you did is common for new members, so don't feel picked on or anything. Just be sure you have the home play under your belt before you commit your bankroll.

PJ

Hi PapaJoe,

Thank you for your kind words. Such reminders help me keep on track and not to tilt my money away. =)

I understand the system is also work-in-progress, i didn't came here to rant about the killer shoes but to contribute my part if applicable to the progress of this formula. I actually like RD1/N quite abit as it managed to win shoes that i couldn't beat in the past.

I will repost all the shoes for you now.

Shoe #1 (+34 units)

B113186

B1231113211211

B11113122111212

B111312111

Shoe #2 (+4 units)

P1221121221113

P112221112115

P1133321231

P131131

Shoe #3 (Bail at -18 units)

P1531141211

P221321261

B12111223142

B123

Shoe #4 (Bail at -15 units around play15-16)

B13121241122

B433231121

B712123121

P1311121

Not sure if this is what you meant by BTC formats, they are grouped into 20 plays now, even streaks of 8 are split to fit into 20 plays.

Thank you and good luck!

Regards,

killthehouse

[ECD]

Hi killthehouse,

I see you have the correct format for posting shoes. IU'm heading to Tunica now to play and I'll be gone 4-5 days.

Can some of you guys play these shoes RD1N and post the results.

Thakns,

PJ

[wolfat]

Hi PapaJoe,

I just learnt netbetting from Andrea 9 hours ago and started practising RD1/N. With a few shoes practise and confident of wielding it, i went down to the casino.

I played 4 shoes, results were a mixed bunch. Killer shoes that i had to bail at -18 units and -15 units.1 breakeven shoe at +4. And 1 whooping amazing shoe which net me +34 units.I'm playing U1D2M2 bet progression and I have a question. Can i unsuspend a strong progression and hibernate a weak progression on the same play? Eg. RD1 progression has lost 2 consecutive bets thus the suspended Anti-RD1 comes into play next turn. But the RD1 progression is the weaker progression in this case and should be suspended next turn. Should i let anti-RD1 come into play next turn and suspend the RD1 the next next turn or in the same turn?

Next are example of the 4 shoes, please try the killer shoes, i believe the U1D2M2 progression caused my loss.

Shoe #1 (+34 units)

B11318723111

P3211211111131

B22111212111312111

Shoe #2 (+4 units)

P12211212211141222

B1112115113332123

B1131131

Shoe #3 (Bail at -18 units)

P153114121122132

B12611211122314323

Shoe #4 (Bail at -15 units around play15-16)

B131212411263323

P112812123121131

B1121

killthehouse

Hi Kill...,

I run your "bad shoes" #3-4 playing RD1-n 2hi as per rules explained in post #87:

#3 ended at +1 with a high of +7 (play 34) and a low of -4

#4 ended at +6 with a high of +6 and a low of -11 (play 31)

It's not so bad for those tough shoes!

ciao

andrea

[res]

My shoes for RD1N on message 92 are incorrect. Many times I was not playing the sporadic 1's correctly. I can find mistakes but playing it is more difficult. Will replay those shoes.

RES

[killthehouse]

Hi Kill...,

I run your "bad shoes" #3-4 playing RD1-n 2hi as per rules explained in post #87:

#3 ended at +1 with a high of +7 (play 34) and a low of -4

#4 ended at +6 with a high of +6 and a low of -11 (play 31)

It's not so bad for those tough shoes!

ciao

andrea

shoe #3 only has a low of -4 with the 2hi rules? I was playing u1d2m2, maybe i'm playing the whole rd1/n wrong? Can i do the play on a piece of paper, scan and email to you please Andrea?

Thank you!

Regards,

kill

[Jim Files]

shoe #3 only has a low of -4 with the 2hi rules? I was playing u1d2m2, maybe i'm playing the whole rd1/n wrong? Can i do the play on a piece of paper, scan and email to you please Andrea?

Thank you!

Regards,

kill

Hi All,

Maybe instead of looking at your shoes and correcting them, Andrea could you post your scoresheets with RD1-n done correctly and we could all benefit from seeing more examples done correctly. Since Papa Joe is in Tunica, hopefully making a killing, I would be glad to post any shoes if you don't have a scanner. Just send me a PM and I'll get it posted for you.

Thanks for all you guys do!

Jim

[MVSeahog]

Hi Kill...,

I run your "bad shoes" #3-4 playing RD1-n 2hi as per rules explained in post #87:

#3 ended at +1 with a high of +7 (play 34) and a low of -4

#4 ended at +6 with a high of +6 and a low of -11 (play 31)

It's not so bad for those tough shoes!

ciao

andrea

Andrea,

I also ran all four of them through and the two "tough" shoes (#3 and #4) produced +6 and +5 respectively.

The reason my +nets are different is because I got out of the shoes at hands 30 and 64 to take the profits.

At least we're on the same track, eh?

MVS

Edited February 28, 2010 by MVSeahog