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Hi guys,

I wanted to start a new thread in the private forum here due to the jack-off that has hi-jacked Kevin's thread on the public forum.

So how has 5D been working for you all so far?

I basically have the tracking of the shoes mastered now to where i can have all the data recorded from the hand and then know what my next bet is going to be, all before the dealer gets done paying the table, so i am pretty proud of that.....and honestly, when 4D first came out i thought that was NO way in hell that i would be able to follow along and keep track of all that data. But Kevin has done an awesome job explaining it all.

My shoe scores so far have been +7, -1, +10, +3 ......(the -1 shoe was at a +6 and i was going to stop but,....oh well, lesson learned!)

I was a little shocked with the last shoe i played because there were 8 times where all 4 disparities pointed to the same bet, but it lost! I still pulled out with +3, but felt that the 5D system did not really help me win this shoe. I am going to try and replay the shoe tomorrow and re-track it hand by hand just to double check all my entries.

I really feel that this could be a solid tool to extract a few units with each shoe very consistently. I just need to talk with Kevin now to get a little advanced training on some issues....like when 3 or 4 of the disparities are all >6.

But so far so good and i will be playing again this week a few days..... R8 here i come baby!!! :cool:

I was waiting for the holiday weekend to be over with before i bothered you Kevin! lol i'll be talking to you soon..

mtman

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I am in stage on getting enough speed to use it in Bacc tables. Here the time between hands is 30 seconds, due to Easy bacc .( no pay of commisions) pays half bet on bank winning with 6.

A cheap way to practice for real is on electronic roulette playing black and red. I know it is rigged, a way to avoid that is pick a full table and start playing at minimum bet,with a mild prog.

Sure, you are not going to make big money on that, but is a good source to practice, since the time between spins is exactly 30 seconds.

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Mtman,

Great job in starting a new thread on the private forum. I think I know the identity of that guy. I am not 100% so I am not saying who I think it is. It would make perfect sense though.

Anyway,

The beauty of Kevin's thing is that you will be able to take more units then give back. And remember, it is a marathon and not a sprint. The 5D is not going to work every time but name me a method of play that does. It's a GREAT way to play. What gives it more credence is that Kevin gave us this out of the goodness of his heart. He never aimed to make a profit from this. Win more than your lose.

Hi guys,

I wanted to start a new thread in the private forum here due to the jack-off that has hi-jacked Kevin's thread on the public forum.

So how has 5D been working for you all so far?

I basically have the tracking of the shoes mastered now to where i can have all the data recorded from the hand and then know what my next bet is going to be, all before the dealer gets done paying the table, so i am pretty proud of that.....and honestly, when 4D first came out i thought that was NO way in hell that i would be able to follow along and keep track of all that data. But Kevin has done an awesome job explaining it all.

My shoe scores so far have been +7, -1, +10, +3 ......(the -1 shoe was at a +6 and i was going to stop but,....oh well, lesson learned!)

I was a little shocked with the last shoe i played because there were 8 times where all 4 disparities pointed to the same bet, but it lost! I still pulled out with +3, but felt that the 5D system did not really help me win this shoe. I am going to try and replay the shoe tomorrow and re-track it hand by hand just to double check all my entries.

I really feel that this could be a solid tool to extract a few units with each shoe very consistently. I just need to talk with Kevin now to get a little advanced training on some issues....like when 3 or 4 of the disparities are all >6.

But so far so good and i will be playing again this week a few days..... R8 here i come baby!!! :cool:

I was waiting for the holiday weekend to be over with before i bothered you Kevin! lol i'll be talking to you soon..

mtman

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Good morning guys and thanks for the responses!

That's funny McVince because i was thinking i had an idea of who that person might be also!

Sure ArkSobo, here is the shoe that gave me a little trouble...and when i looked back over my tracking sheet that i do separate from the 5D tracking, i found that there was 8 times that all disparity indicators lined up to show the same bet, However the opposite won! :( I sure as hell hope that i did something wrong in my tracking! Thanks for taking a look at this...

P11162112313211428133..... the last three, which were bankers, i only played the first banker and then ended the shoe....here is a little more of the shoe i recorded while getting ready to leave.... P33111111

So as you can see there was even a tough last MDB+ bet with that 813333.....i wish i would of stuck around to see when that next 2 was coming.

Funny thing is that i was up playing lastnight and had a struggle again with 5D. I think i need to take a step back and practice at home again, or just record shoes in real time at the casino and hypothetically bet. I think Modnar i just might try your idea and practice with the roulette also if its too busy by the bacc tables.

I know this is good stuff but i need to tweak something it seems.

From what i know about MDB+, this has helped me out of a few jams, and when i was down lastnight, all i did was then be patient and walk around and wait for MDB+ triggers and bet....and wouldn't ya know, i won them all and got back even and then left with profit!

Well today is my birthday so i am heading out to play tonight and stay at the casino hotel and party the night away! Always great to use a little birthday magic luck in your favor!! :)

Have a great day everybody!

mtman

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Good morning guys and thanks for the responses!

That's funny McVince because i was thinking i had an idea of who that person might be also!

Sure ArkSobo, here is the shoe that gave me a little trouble...and when i looked back over my tracking sheet that i do separate from the 5D tracking, i found that there was 8 times that all disparity indicators lined up to show the same bet, However the opposite won! :( I sure as hell hope that i did something wrong in my tracking! Thanks for taking a look at this...

P11162112313211428133..... the last three, which were bankers, i only played the first banker and then ended the shoe....here is a little more of the shoe i recorded while getting ready to leave.... P33111111

So as you can see there was even a tough last MDB+ bet with that 813333.....i wish i would of stuck around to see when that next 2 was coming.

Funny thing is that i was up playing lastnight and had a struggle again with 5D. I think i need to take a step back and practice at home again, or just record shoes in real time at the casino and hypothetically bet. I think Modnar i just might try your idea and practice with the roulette also if its too busy by the bacc tables.

I know this is good stuff but i need to tweak something it seems.

From what i know about MDB+, this has helped me out of a few jams, and when i was down lastnight, all i did was then be patient and walk around and wait for MDB+ triggers and bet....and wouldn't ya know, i won them all and got back even and then left with profit!

Well today is my birthday so i am heading out to play tonight and stay at the casino hotel and party the night away! Always great to use a little birthday magic luck in your favor!! :)

Have a great day everybody!

mtman

Hi mtman

First it was a good idea to move 5d to the private. I played your shoe with 4d and it was very good. The score is +17 with the highest +19. Can you tell me were is the trouble in order to compare with my results?

Thanks

Kostas

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Thanks alot guys! It was a great day this year, had a lot of fun playing at the casino and stayed free at their new hotel. Won a little bit of mone, but nothing to brag about!

That night a couple of high rollers were in town and one of the four tables reserved. It started with a min of $100, then at about 10pm they upped it to $500 min ....can you believe that???...in Milwaukee WI of all places!?! I found out the next morning from one of the dealers that the young asian dude that was playing and betting anywhere from 1k - 5k per hand ended up winning $200k that night! ..... holy moses!!

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Hi mtman

First it was a good idea to move 5d to the private. I played your shoe with 4d and it was very good. The score is +17 with the highest +19. Can you tell me were is the trouble in order to compare with my results?

Thanks

Kostas

Thanks alot Kostas for reviewing that shoe and playing it out. It's good to know that if you got to +17 and i only got to +3, then i must be doing something wrong....and the really good thing is that if i was winning playing the way i was playing, just think how good i could be if i was playing the Correct way!!! lol

The hands that i had the problems with were: #'s 19, 21, 23, 27, 28, 30, 31, 36, 42

These hands are what i have on my separate tracking sheet as all 4 showing the bet should have favored one way, but the opposite actually won. I haven't had the time the last couple of days to go over this shoe again, but i will replay it over again in the next day or two, hand per hand to see if i get the same results.

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Thanks alot Kostas for reviewing that shoe and playing it out. It's good to know that if you got to +17 and i only got to +3, then i must be doing something wrong....and the really good thing is that if i was winning playing the way i was playing, just think how good i could be if i was playing the Correct way!!! lol

The hands that i had the problems with were: #'s 19, 21, 23, 27, 28, 30, 31, 36, 42

These hands are what i have on my separate tracking sheet as all 4 showing the bet should have favored one way, but the opposite actually won. I haven't had the time the last couple of days to go over this shoe again, but i will replay it over again in the next day or two, hand per hand to see if i get the same results.

Hi mtman

According to my tracking, hand # 19 indicates B on the next hand and we loose, hand # 21 same and we loose again, hand# 23 all count indicate B the next hand and we win, hand# 27 all counts indicate P and we win the next hand, hand # 28 all counts indicate B for the next hand and we loose, hand # 30 all counts indicate B and we win the next hand, hand # 31 the same, hand # 36 the counts are 4, -3, 0, 1 so the first 2 counts indicate P and the last 2 B so no bet on the next hand, hand # 42 three counts indicate P and one B and we win on the next hand.

If you play UiD2 prog the score is much higher. I played your shoe with 1, 2 prog

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Hi mtman

According to my tracking, hand # 19 indicates B on the next hand and we loose, hand # 21 same and we loose again, hand# 23 all count indicate B the next hand and we win, hand# 27 all counts indicate P and we win the next hand, hand # 28 all counts indicate B for the next hand and we loose, hand # 30 all counts indicate B and we win the next hand, hand # 31 the same, hand # 36 the counts are 4, -3, 0, 1 so the first 2 counts indicate P and the last 2 B so no bet on the next hand, hand # 42 three counts indicate P and one B and we win on the next hand.

If you play UiD2 prog the score is much higher. I played your shoe with 1, 2 prog

Kostas,

Thanks again for taking the time to go over this shoe. Looks like i had made some miscalculations along the way.

When you use that 1,2 prog are you just flat-betting until you lose and then you place a 2 bet? What happens then if you were to lose the 2bet, do you

then go down to a 1 bet?....and how long do you stay in a 1-2 loop? ....or do you just play the whole shoe 1-2-1-2-1-2?

I never really got into progressions because i don't feel as comfortable when my bet gets too high....but it seems with 5D you don't lose too many in a row so a progression is maybe the way i should start to play.

mtman

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Kostas,

Thanks again for taking the time to go over this shoe. Looks like i had made some miscalculations along the way.

When you use that 1,2 prog are you just flat-betting until you lose and then you place a 2 bet? What happens then if you were to lose the 2bet, do you

then go down to a 1 bet?....and how long do you stay in a 1-2 loop? ....or do you just play the whole shoe 1-2-1-2-1-2?

I never really got into progressions because i don't feel as comfortable when my bet gets too high....but it seems with 5D you don't lose too many in a row so a progression is maybe the way i should start to play.

mtman

Yes mtman I used 1, 2 negative prog. It means that I bet 1 unit until I loose, then I bet 2 units. Win or loose I return to 1 unit bet. Its safe but on the other hand it is not so productive.

Kostas

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Sorry I posted in the public forum...I meant to post on this one.

Hello Weddings...quick (respectful) question about your spreadsheet (just trying to learn here..and thank you for posting this!)

On Row 11 we see O3 go to P. My current understanding is when a disparity goes SS we are to choose the SS of that disparity...in this case the strong side of 3 rows back. Questions/Observations

1. Player never goes strong...starting from the beginning of the shoe. It's always behind banker. It is strong from the start of tracking. Is this correct?

2. When we choose the SS of O3 ... do we go 3 rows back from the Next (empty) cell or the current cell? I've been going back 3 from the next / empty cell hope i've been doing it right.

Again thank you!!

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I realized that I am NOT able to collect all info needed  in time to perform well  with this system. Don't  get me wrong, I am sure it work well for many of you.

So, what is next for me. I will try to develop my own style of playing, something that suit my needs. I am focused on roulette, and if I make it work  I promise I will release it

on roulette private forum, as a way to pay back all I learned  here in the last 3 years.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The mtman and I met up at "The Pot" (aka Potawatomi in Milwaukee) on the 23rd. Played 2 shoes, ham and egged it to +5 per shoe each for +10 overall. Lots of fun, slow and steady won the night! 

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Well done guys did you play 5D?o

I have had a bit of time to look at 5D in detail over last few days

Pretty damn good job kachatz did

Catches onto every trend - bets OTBL when things are neutral (the best default there is)

Uses multiple triggers determine bets.

Recording stats is the hardest but its all practise

OOTT or Opposite 3 back is trickiest for me

I recognized a few 4 plays patterns to help determine them quickly:

 

PPPB or BBBP or 31 = OO or O3 back

PPBB or BBPP or 22 = OO

PBPB = OO

If you memorise those 3 then every other 4 plays pattern is a TT

Once you determine the OO total then you subtract that from the PB total and then subtract 3 and that's your TT total.

Practising and using little tricks helps to be able to record fast and once you can do that the stats tell you what to bet on

It may well be the HG for some, it may not be for others but you wont know till you try!

 

 

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I missed a 31 pattern this also qualifies for a OO result

 

OO results:

13 (PBBB)

31 (BBBP)

22 (PPBB)

1111 (PBPB)

 

TT results:

121 (PBBP)

211 (PPBP

112 (PBPP)

4 (PPPP)

 

Helps me to quickly determine either OO or TT result

First OO/TT result cant happen until 4th play meaning 3 plays less than PB count total

Determine either OO or TT total and subtract that from PB total and then 3 and thats the other result

I don't have too much issue with OT count as its not too hard to visually count O or T quickly.

 

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Well have been practising 5D and cant really get used to the way kachatz records so have devised my own way - nothing new really just things I've learned here:

I call it the 5D Matrix or 5D-M (joking)

Heres a shoe start I just played:

12111121122

Heres the 5D (actually its 4D really) matrix layout:

P 0 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 6 7 7 7 8 8 8

B 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 5 5 6 6 6 7 8 8 9 10

O   1 1 2 3 4 5 6 6 7 8 9 9 10 10 11 12 12

R   0 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 5

Cant be bothered to write it all out now will post a layout and score sheet in next few days.

This one was like a dream because it was just opposites and I decided to keep playing until 2 losses but they never came so I quit ahead

What I do is look along rows to look for movement as sometimes a count may be within 3 but has moved 4 counts so its deceptively strong even though its not higfh scoring

Also I circle the 0 results like P/B 2/2 - you can see patterns as to when the counts cross zero - in this case the PB count crossed zero regularly due to strong chop but sometimes its every 2 or 3 plays - these are good net bet opportunities - bet count will hit zero.

I pretty much play 5D just looking for dominance and then sometimes I play net bet opportunities and sometimes OTBL or repeat if all counts are neutral.

I still don't exactly see the logic in OTBL bet for 4/4 or 3/4 neutral counts but I can understand when things are neutral OTBL is best default

I'm sure kachatz doesn't play this mechanical like so its up to everyone to make it work for them.

The beauty of 4D or 5D is it latches onto dominance or neutral counts very quickly

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Since being back here at BTC, only for a couple of days, I am enjoying learning, studying, practicing 4D.  Still, I need to get about 100 shoes practiced, before I can share any worthwhile thoughts on it. I know any and all systems/strategies demands hard work.

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