Users ECD Posted August 15, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 6 hours ago, ozscouser1 said: My Bankroll Management came straight out of the "Norm Allen" playbook. Pretty simple really...It's the 10% Staking System.Take 10% of your current Bankroll and divide by your STOP/LOSS (in my case -3) which gives you your unit size. eg:10% of $3,000BR = $300 divided by S/L -3 =$100 units At first glance, it appears to require 10 losing shoes in a row to lose your entire B/R (unlikely...but not impossible)...but not so...it's much safer, because you stick solidly to the 10% rule and your unit size moves up or down with the increasing or decreasing size of your Bankroll. You really would have do something bordering on "braindead" to lose your entire BR. Playing this way doubles your Bankroll every 30 units. Easy if you've got balls of steel...but as you may have gathered, I'm not in the same class as Norm and Way2Fast when it comes to testicular lowering so I cheated a little when I started out. I was using a S/L of -4 and instead of 10% of my BR...I risked 5%. eg: 5% of $8000 BR = $400 divided by S/L -4 = $100 unit size. It took me a bit longer, but I am now at the point where I don't need to concern myself with BR. That's it in a nutshell...not that hard...eh? I'm quoting myself here. Is that the height of arrogance? I forgot to add that as I am a regular player and either am Flatbetting or "Looping"...I no longer feel the need to operate with a S/L for individual shoes and most definitely not with a STOP/WIN. Occasional/entertainment players and those playing N/Ps and beginners, of course, should utilise both a S/L and a S/W. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) lol I don't think it is arrogance, it more about wanting to be clear, but I enjoy the humor of how you said that. Having played a lot through the years, I certainly can see removing the limits in both regards, depending on the shoe(s), and also the skillset of the person. Due to work for a couple of years, even though I practiced occasionally, I didn't really progress forward, which I am working on doing in the last several months. I still work, but not as much as I did, and I hope soon that the daily work jobs will no longer be needed. Everything in life that is worthwhile is a process, and if a person is honest, they will know when and what they are ready for when it is right for them. That is another great aspect of being here with everyone else.....beginners, intermediate, and advanced levels.....it's just awesome and such a good community to be allowed to be a part of. Just my humble viewpoint, we all really need each other. Edited August 15, 2016 by avion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 This is simply the best thread ever Great contributions from Oz, Way2ast, Wolfat, Brad, Avion, CT70, mjmtong, and many others What more could we ask for Thanks guys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 I can easily ask for one thing......for each active member.....to be able to meet at a time and place in person for at least 3-4 days. It blows my mind just to even think about it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmtong Posted August 15, 2016 Report Share Posted August 15, 2016 What a game! What a great bunch of people contributing here! It IS inspiring to be able to learn from the best! In the end it up to the individual to DO the necessary work and the "hard yards". A wonderful bit of advise about learning ANYTHING that I heard years ago is: "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better". Learn correct Play and correct Money Management and then, as has been said by so many "Greats" (in whatever field of endevour) KEEP working at it! "The key is not the will to win… everybody can clain to have that. It is the will to prepare to win that is important.” - Bobby Knight (Legendary Basketball Coach) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVRB089 Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Awesome when Bobby Knight can be quoted. Oh I missthe good old days when Bobby ruled IU! Not relevant , but I needed to say it. Definitely awesome thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 15 hours ago, mjmtong said: What a game! What a great bunch of people contributing here! It IS inspiring to be able to learn from the best! In the end it up to the individual to DO the necessary work and the "hard yards". A wonderful bit of advise about learning ANYTHING that I heard years ago is: "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better". Learn correct Play and correct Money Management and then, as has been said by so many "Greats" (in whatever field of endevour) KEEP working at it! "The key is not the will to win… everybody can clain to have that. It is the will to prepare to win that is important.” - Bobby Knight (Legendary Basketball Coach) Yes , I like the words, 'the will to prepare to win '. it is words of wisdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 17 hours ago, avion said: I can easily ask for one thing......for each active member.....to be able to meet at a time and place in person for at least 3-4 days. It blows my mind just to even think about it. great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 As I consider myself an "active" member here, as well as a "student" of the game, I also want to give as much as I know to the community "members" at large here. I try to be aware of the needs, and wants of other members. Example, am I asking for too much help from certain members? Meaning, am I being selfish in thinking only of myself in taking up too much of their time and energy, when it only benefits myself. I am aware of that, because it has happened to me, in that there have been times, I have spent 3 and 4 days at a time in doing nothing for myself, and only doing what others need and want me to for them. Please understand I am not complaining. I am simply saying I have to check myself, that I am not taking up too much time and energy of others in what I need to learn. Like anything in life, a healthy balance of give and take is necessary. For example, consider the number of members here and imagine the possible numerous requests members like Oz, way2fast, get from others to help them. I must say I am guilty in that respect, in that I have contacted both with questions, requests, etc. Consider also, for those that get so many questions, requests etc, it can actually become a full time job and even more so for them, and no one is getting paid to do that. Am I suggesting someone should get paid for doing that....ABSOLUTELY NOT. It's great to have advanced players sharing and contributing and we need more. At the same time I am sensitive to the fact that in wanting and needing them to participate, it is possible to actually drive them away by wanting and needing too much from them. I love a great two way conversation. But I realize even that....at times, can be too demanding upon others. Please share your thoughts on this.....if....you have the time to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanislaus Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 CT70 wrote a post recently and said that once you reach the $100-unit playing level "you will need to learn how to fly under the radar...but that's another day's lesson..." I was thinking of the players like Norm, who from what I read, played units from $1000 to $5000 a hand. And when Norm played in Las Vegas, he played at some casinos (like the MGM Grand) regularly. I do not know if he took comps, buy I am sure that he was offered them. He was known to the casinos hosts. But my real question to CT70 is: how can anyone playing $1,000 units and up fly under the radar? I am sure that the casino bosses will probably go out of their way to find out what they can about a player who plays high units, especially if he plays at certain casinos on a regular basis and wins on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, Stanislaus said: how can anyone playing $1,000 units and up fly under the radar? They can't. I played with Norm many times at MGM and Aria. He was well known to the pit critters -- he didn't even have to show them his Noir card to buy in or to take a marker -- they all knew his name and player number. They track players at levels much lower than $1,000. You want to be anonymous is Vegas? Stick to $25 to a few hundred. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Yes you are both right. You cannot fly under the radar in Las Vegas. I will explain what I meant when I made the statement. The beauty of Las Vegas is you can bet the world and they will let you. You can keep on winning and winning and winning and no one is going to stop you. Moreover, they don't want to bar you even if you win a lot because that would come up in social media and that would not be good for any casino's reputation. At the same time the "control" factor in LV is very high. It has to be. When you buy in they now how much you bought in for and when you are done playing they ask you to "color up" before you leave the table. This is so they can keep their accounting straight. They know exactly how much you won or lost. What I was referring to is my own situation. (By the way I said $100 units not $1000...lol) I live in a (baccarat paradise) city in California where there are 6 casinos, all owned by different owners. ALL are within 20 minutes from one another. ALL have at least 15 bac tables (one has 40 tables). Because they are all owned by different people, the computers are not connected. So your action in one casino isn't shared with the other casinos. When you play at these casinos, you go to the cashier cage and get your chips to play (you can also get your chips right on the table). They don't keep track of how many chips you bought in for. And they don't ask you to color up. Another thing, here in these casinos, on every table they have a person with a bank of chips (like a cashier). When you win or lose, that person called "the corporation" pays you. It's not as sophisticated as it sounds. Instead of the dealer paying you, the corporation pays you. The casino has no risk. The corporation as it's called takes the risk. Depending on how much is bet, the casino gets paid a small sum for dealing the cards. I happen to know that in one casino, when you cash out (at the main cashier cage) more than $1000, they don't ask you for your player card or ID but they do record something in their computer for their own records, before they actually give you your money. When the payout is less than $1000, they just give you your money and off you go. No record keeping. BTW, everytime I sit down to play, the dealers always asks me if I have a player card and I always say NO. They don't request that I get one either. Nor am I going to. (Although I do have player cards for all the LV casinos). If time permits, I can hit all 6 of these casinos (or at least 4 of them) and make 10 units of $100 each from each casino ($1000 per casino). That's $4000 plus a day. No one will ask me any questions. I can do this everyday. That's over 100K per month. This is what I was talking about regarding flying under the radar. CT70 Edited August 17, 2016 by ECD 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) So CT70, pardon my ignorance what are the advantages for a player like yourself staying under the radar. Edited August 17, 2016 by Pando additional word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Well, a small casino might find it amusing that you are winning everyday, until about 2 weeks. They'll think you're just lucky. After a few weeks they will be very curious as to HOW you are winning. They would not appreciate the fact you are taking a certain amount of money everyday. This would annoy them and they may even find a way to just kick you out. Remember these are privately owned casinos not major corporation like in Las Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pando Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Thank you, CT70 that's very interesting I have seen many people win quite significant amounts (say up to $25,000) and it doesn't seem to bother the casino But then I cannot say that they do it on a regular basis Thanks for the information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnycs1 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 9 hours ago, CT70 said: Yes you are both right. You cannot fly under the radar in Las Vegas. I will explain what I meant when I made the statement. The beauty of Las Vegas is you can bet the world and they will let you. You can keep on winning and winning and winning and no one is going to stop you. Moreover, they don't want to bar you even if you win a lot because that would come up in social media and that would not be good for any casino's reputation. At the same time the "control" factor in LV is very high. It has to be. When you buy in they now how much you bought in for and when you are done playing they ask you to "color up" before you leave the table. This is so they can keep their accounting straight. They know exactly how much you won or lost. What I was referring to is my own situation. (By the way I said $100 units not $1000...lol) I live in a (baccarat paradise) city in California where there are 6 casinos, all owned by different owners. ALL are within 20 minutes from one another. ALL have at least 15 bac tables (one has 40 tables). Because they are all owned by different people, the computers are not connected. So your action in one casino isn't shared with the other casinos. When you play at these casinos, you go to the cashier cage and get your chips to play (you can also get your chips right on the table). They don't keep track of how many chips you bought in for. And they don't ask you to color up. Another thing, here in these casinos, on every table they have a person with a bank of chips (like a cashier). When you win or lose, that person called "the corporation" pays you. It's not as sophisticated as it sounds. Instead of the dealer paying you, the corporation pays you. The casino has no risk. The corporation as it's called takes the risk. Depending on how much is bet, the casino gets paid a small sum for dealing the cards. I happen to know that in one casino, when you cash out (at the main cashier cage) more than $1000, they don't ask you for your player card or ID but they do record something in their computer for their own records, before they actually give you your money. When the payout is less than $1000, they just give you your money and off you go. No record keeping. BTW, everytime I sit down to play, the dealers always asks me if I have a player card and I always say NO. They don't request that I get one either. Nor am I going to. (Although I do have player cards for all the LV casinos). If time permits, I can hit all 6 of these casinos (or at least 4 of them) and make 10 units of $100 each from each casino ($1000 per casino). That's $4000 plus a day. No one will ask me any questions. I can do this everyday. That's over 100K per month. This is what I was talking about regarding flying under the radar. CT70 What city in California ? thanks...johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, johnnycs1 said: What city in California ? thanks...johnny CT's card rooms are in the Los Angeles area. They are an interesting animal in the California casino scene. They are not subject to the same gaming regulations as other California casinos (like, Harrah's, Pechanga, Barona, etc.). That's not to say they are unregulated -- the California Gaming Control Commission provides licensing of employees, and the business is supposed to be overseen by the California DOJ. There are no state regulations on various operating principals such as card prep, supervision, security, etc. The Card Rooms also have to be approved by local governments, and they are all located in just a couple local municipalities that have grandfathered them under old laws. The existence of third-party providers of proposition player services (CT referred to them as the Corporation) is what makes these places really unique. The card room generates revenue from a fee per hand dealt (similar to poker rooms in casinos), not from the gambling action. The Corporation is the "house" you are playing against. I have heard interesting stories from several LA-based players on their experience with the Corporation when they have won either too much or too frequently. It is a VERY good idea to stay under the radar whenever playing at a lightly regulated business where the other party's only objective is to get your cash. As you would expect from a great player, CT has figured out how to win at his local casinos as he explains in his post. One of the advantages of the card rooms he goes to is the large number of open, and very active, baccarat games. It is a great environment to practice or experiment with bet selection or money management ideas, as well as to get real casino experience at low stakes. I enjoy playing there occasionally with CT, although do so at pretty low stakes and prefer a more hit n run approach there. And as CT says, it is still possible for a good player to take regular wins that start to add up to real money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Went to Tampa Hard Rock today, and disappointed to find the "Super 6" for the first time in action. One shoe I saw 3 Super Six bankers in a row. High limit room next with touch cards and no super six. Another area in the casino, Super 6 again, and then found 1 table that was regular commission table. Charted 4 shoes, didn't see the type of shoe I was looking for. Finally, on the 5th shoe, I saw a shoe I was looking for, hit +11, lost one and cashed out with +10 units. Entered the shoes on stats for profit. A lot of construction work inside and outside the casino going on. Parking lot in the front is gone and they are building on it. So, the garage parking, which never did before, is charging everyone 10.00 per car. Easy to figure out they will use the parking charge for the costs of construction. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 3 hours ago, avion said: Went to Tampa Hard Rock today, and disappointed to find the "Super 6" for the first time in action. One shoe I saw 3 Super Six bankers in a row. High limit room next with touch cards and no super six. Another area in the casino, Super 6 again, and then found 1 table that was regular commission table. Charted 4 shoes, didn't see the type of shoe I was looking for. Finally, on the 5th shoe, I saw a shoe I was looking for, hit +11, lost one and cashed out with +10 units. Entered the shoes on stats for profit. A lot of construction work inside and outside the casino going on. Parking lot in the front is gone and they are building on it. So, the garage parking, which never did before, is charging everyone 10.00 per car. Easy to figure out they will use the parking charge for the costs of construction. That game which pays 50% of your bet on a banker win with 6 is not a good game. The house edge on the banker side jumps from 1.06% in the standard commission game to 1.46% when banker 6 pays 50%. The casino will tell you they went to commission-less to reduce dealer errors on commission and make it a better game for players. As is ALWAYS the case, the casino is lying to you. They just smoothly increased their rate of profit by 37% all because they want to make it better for the players! The EZ Baccarat game (push on banker 7) is better because you can hedge out the banker 7 by making a dragon bet equal to 2.5% of your banker bet. Over time, the result is you will loose less on those dragon bets than you would have paid in commission, so you actually come out slightly ahead. By itself, the dragon bet is a bad bet (house edge of 7.6%), but sized correctly along with a banker bet it has a useful purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted August 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) Thanks Way2Fast. As long as we are on the subject of EZ bac games. One thing that I could never figure out is that since all the cards in these games are completely prearranged. They are preshuffled cards and they come to the table in a locked clear plastic container. The dealers are extremely careful not to mix up the order. The decks (all 8 decks together as 1) are offered to the players to cut and then the dealer puts the cards into the card dispenser and starts to deal. There is no shuffling whatsoever. So that being said, if it is in the casinos control to prearrange the cards beforehand, how do they decide how many dragon and panda hands to put into each game? I have always been curious about that.Does anyone have any insight? One thing I have definitely noticed after having payed attention for several days is that the majority of the dragon outcome hands usually fall when you would be expecting a player win, and the panda hands usually happen when you would be expecting a banker win. This makes senses so as to reduce the payouts of each. So for example, you are following a ZZ run, and usually most players just follow ZZ runs. The dragon will occur as a 2nd liner as most players have their bets on the player side. Let me mention that you still see dragons during a strong banker side, or banker runs. I guess they still have to put some of them in there because if those long banker runs didn't have any dragons in them, eventually people would stop flocking to them. The Asians just flock to the tables when they see a long banker run and they are just dragon bettors. Some of them do back up their bet on banker to offset their wager. I don't usually bet the panda. I rather bet the dragon as it pays 40 to 1. Moreover, I time I bet the dragon is only when the expected outcome is a is a player . The same with ZZ runs. I will bet on dragon when the expected outcome is player. Again I am not saying the dragons and pandas only occur at opposite times than you would expect, I am just saying the majority do. CT70 Edited August 18, 2016 by ECD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Thank you way2fast. It was my first actual in person encounter in seeing the super 6. One particular person caught my attention on those 3 bankers decisions that were a six. I was standing behind him, charting the shoe. He won on a 200.00 bet the first one, got paid 100.00. I heard him say, now I have to up my bet to gain back what I was supposed to get, so he upped his next bet to 300.00 and got 150.00, and he simply said, now he had to up it again to 550.00, he got 275.00. He then said, okay, I will up it again one last time, and bet 1,000.00 bet and lost. I didn't have the actual percentage of the disadvantage for a person playing the super 6. But I knew by the sickening feeling growing in my gut as I watched that guy, it was not good. Thank you for the expert percentage of advantage it gives the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 CT that sounds awfully close to "thinking like a shoe designer". Meaning they get you thinking one way, and then pull the rug out from under you the other way, as it was mentioned. Or in the case of the Panda and Dragon bets as you presented it......a possible distraction. Charting the shoes today, the thought kept re-occuring to me.....find the pattern before they pull the rug out underneath me. The only conclusion and remedy of solution I could think of, I give credit to way2fast........short term set ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashout Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Hi, OZ,CT70, PapaJoe, Brad, Wolfat, Way2fast, I am in complete amazement. I was not expecting this perfect storm. I knew one day in my dreams this would happen all of you coming together. Oz I want to first off thank you for all the incredible advice that is priceless you have given. I know you have mentioned many times you are not a teacher and I appreciate and everyone here really does. Papa Joe thank you for your great advice. CT70 I hope you are taking the casino " You know which ones " to the cleaners with all your winnings. Way2fast great pic of those beautiful looking chips from Vegas you posted awhile back. Brad it never seems to amaze me with your contributions. You are always helpful. Wolfat I hope all is well. I know we never stop learning but one thing for sure I can tell you its ALWAYS a pleasure learning from more experienced players because to win a million bucks from a couple hundred dollars is a huge accomplishment because most players you see at the casinos are constantly pulling money out of there wallets. Just like OZ,Papajoe,Way2fast had mentors when they first started playing.. You all are our mentors and we appreciate every piece of advice you give us. Thank you !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Users Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 Only thing missing is kachatz and his twisted humour! Hope he will drop in sooner or later! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted September 6, 2016 Report Share Posted September 6, 2016 cash and brad I wholeheartedly agree with you. All of those mentioned and not mentioned, are the best of the very best there is. The gratitude to all of them is genuinely shared by many here. Onward and forward we go....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.