Keith Smith Posted December 27, 2011 Report Share Posted December 27, 2011 Folks,People have made me aware of someone reselling the NOR manual. Can someone point me to the website that is offering it. I am going to have my Attorney contact them. They are reselling copyrighted material without permission. There is no ask them to stop just tell me who they are.The last case was handled by my copyright attorney when we sued for copyright infringment of Blackjack 101. The case was settle out of court and we were awarded all the proceeds. Not only did we sue the person responsible for doing it but also the web hosting company for not taking the appropriate action to remove copyrighted information once they were made aware. Their website is jdsw.com. My attorney who handled the case for us was David Deluce.Any information is appreciatedKeith Quote Join us in Vegas for the Back to Vegas Seminar at the Crescent Dealer's School Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted December 28, 2011 Users Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Keith,I am sorry to hear this is happening. You and Ellis have put together a quality product and have been more than generous with the private members of your forum, including charging virtually nothing for the keys to the goldmine. I am embarresed that one of "us" has made your work available, instead of just using the information to learn life-long skills.I wish you the best of luck in finding the source, and dealing with it appropriately.Way2fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnChamer Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ya this really sucks and is not right to the members here, but there sure to be one thing for certain, the support given here from Ellis is priceless and I'm sure the other idiots who have purchased it from the other websites are missing out and don't deserve what we have here.I consider ourselves as an "Elite Group" nothing but the beaters is and will be. Sorry to hear the trouble you need to go through to get this resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member wolfat Posted December 28, 2011 Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 In BF there's a guy stating that he can teach NOR.The thread is: S40-OTB4L-F2-3=NOR systemHowever the support from Ellis can't be substituted from a Mr.Noone! Quote bacclover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Well, this all started yesterday when a guy PMed me to unbelievably ask if the reseller manual was any different from our formal NOR manual. Don't know where he came from but he sounds like BF mentality to me. BF has been doing this for years and has a long list of stolen manuals for sale. I strongly feel they are an outlaw site and should be stricken from the internet for good and not allowed to return under a different name. The site has also had many known scammers on there selling their wares.This same behavior has decimated the music industry. When is the last time you've heard of a hit song? There is virtually no point in cutting a record any more.As I said in the first line of the manual, you can't learn NOR from the manual alone. Too much is purposly left out. There is just enough in the manual to get you into big trouble in a casino. Some of you found this out the hard way. Forum support and/or seminar support is more than mandatory.Several guys on BF have complained my manuals don't work. I've never heard of and have never taught any of them.It's like stealing a car and then complaining to the Manufacturer that it doesn't run good.The guy complaining over there at the moment can't read or write and appears to have about a 70 IQ. Doesn't know an Opposite from a Repeat. Can't even spell my name right (and its such a simple word, Ellis, Ellis, Ellis, much like row, row, row.) He steals a manual he can't even begin to understand and then calls me a scammer. BF is solid proof that the average IQ in this world is 100. Half its people have even less. Somehow all of them seem to find BF. They need to be cut out from the internet like a boil.I told the owner of BF that his site is nothing more than a reseller site. So he banned me less the truth be told. I was the only poster they had that knew anything about Baccarat. Now they have no one. They used to have a handful of enlightened guys but they all quit. I don't wonder why.Think about it. They are stealing from YOU ! Edited December 28, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Perhaps we were all worried over nothing because I just got a reply from the guy:12-28-2011 04:44 AM rudd1234 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles Junior Member Join Date:Dec 2011Posts:0Rep Power:0 Re: Enquiry Originally Posted by E. Clifton Davis Originally Posted by rudd1234 Hi Ellis,Can i ask you for your download manual it is basically just an online manual right?Is it order i get from reseller .What is the difference?Also rudd1234 there are a lot of fake manuals out there. Who is this person who says he has an original and where did you hear of it? BF?Hi Ellis, i am just assuming it is not difficult to find someone who is willing to resell. I have bought from some sites but later than discover they are not reliable. Also before deciding whether to buy, i will need to know more your product.I am looking for consistence play win. Have tried many but none were consistent enough OK, I suggested to rudd that he is better off asking you guys so watch for a rudd1234 post on the public forum. Sorry to cause all this hullabalu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigVic Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Sounds like rudd1234 has an IQ of 70. Sounds like a non starter to me. However, weeks ago now I reported to Keith about a member here that was going to teach NOR to the BF people. Guess that was stopped before it began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchygal Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yes i agree with BigVic. I read the post about someone offering to teach NOR for free to BF members. It was shocking. We should all respect copyright issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Sounds like rudd1234 has an IQ of 70. Sounds like a non starter to me. However, weeks ago now I reported to Keith about a member here that was going to teach NOR to the BF people. Guess that was stopped before it began.Right Vic, I put a stop to it but I didn't know it was you who gave us that info. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Yes i agree with BigVic. I read the post about someone offering to teach NOR for free to BF members. It was shocking. We should all respect copyright issues. Right, BF and many other people think that the internet is immune from the international copyright laws. They laugh at them. I guess they didn't see the CD copiers that lost extremely heavy suits by the music industry. I also sued in Federal Court a trio that was selling my book NBJ. I not only got awarded all of their money, I also got their office furniture, copy machines and computers - a whole truckload of stuff. Those courts take theirselves very seriously. Copyright infringement is a federal crime. They are going to end up finding out the hard way - very hard. Edited December 28, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Smith Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ok Just in case these guys think I am clowning around you are attacking my business and this pirating on the internet is done without any thought. To all the clowns who don't think we have the funding to do it you will find something out fast. ---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Keith Smith <keith@keithsmith.com>Date: Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 10:48 AMSubject: Copyright infringmentTo: "David W. DeLuce" <DWD@jdsw.com>Cc: Ellis Ripple <ellis_858@hotmail.com>Hi DaveI was recently made aware of another site selling and advertising to teach our manual we sell on BeatTheCasino.com. This one is a bit more succesful than the Blackjack 101 case you handled for me as our manual sells for $600.00 and we have had quite a bit of success selling it, Recently we just did a seminar in Vegas and are planning one in AC. The last thing I need is someone telling people he will give them a copy for free which is what he is doing. Do you have someone in your firm who can advise and handle this case.Thread that alerted us and also I am getting question from people who said they bought from a reseller. I only licensed to 1 reseller in Las Vegas.RegardsKeithHere is the message that has just been posted:***************In BF there's a guy stating that he can teach NOR.The thread is: S40-OTB4L-F2-3=NOR systemHowever the support from Ellis can't be substituted from a Mr.Noone!BF is ******************* S40 and f2 and F3 are all copywritten material form my website.The whois shows this information as the site ownerRegistrant: Michael Baccarat 4365 Longview Ave Miami, Florida 33186 United States Registered through: Go Daddy Domain Name: ******************* Created on: 04-Apr-08 Expires on: 04-Apr-12 Last Updated on: 03-Feb-11 Administrative Contact: Baccarat, Michael baccaratforums@******************* 4365 Longview Ave Miami, Florida 33186 United States 3052544386 Fax -- Technical Contact: Baccarat, Michael baccaratforums@******************* 4365 Longview Ave Miami, Florida 33186 United States 3052544386 Fax -- Domain servers in listed order: NS1.LINODE.COM NS2.LINODE.COM NS3.LINODE.COM NS4.LINODE.COMContactsLinode, LLC329 E. Jimmie Leeds RoadSuite AGalloway, NJ 08205Phone: (609) 593-7103Fax: (615) 250-4945SIP: 0@office.linode.comISN: 0*862 (FWD, dial **012 first)-- Keith SmithBeatTheCasino.com Quote Join us in Vegas for the Back to Vegas Seminar at the Crescent Dealer's School Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baccarat Hall of Fame Member kachatz1 Posted December 28, 2011 Baccarat Hall of Fame Member Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Finally, THE TRUTH...TANG... THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted December 28, 2011 Users Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Finally, THE TRUTH...TANG... THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS!!!!Thinking back to some of his posts, I am reminded of a famous movie quote: "The minute I laid eyes on you, I knew you were no good," James Karen, Wall Street 1987Amazingly he uses the same name on BF as he offers NOR for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I'm banned from BF so tell me. Are these offerings from Tang recent. What dates did he post this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigVic Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 TangNang started his thread on 12/19/2011helluu forum, im a new guy here, just drop by some of the threads in here and what i have seen is a very rediculous guy trying to show you all 50 steps to achieve winning in baccarat. frankly, if you really believe in that, then good luck. but, for those of you who really wants to beat baccarat. i am the only one who can help because S40, OTB4L, F2-3 and NOR approach are the 3 systems you have to pay 830$ for it. i can teach yuo all for free. because i want to drag you guys out from that joker, KIller methods and follow those steps you will end up suiciding yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Well, I've had a word with Tang since then. What is his most recent post and when exactly was it? Also, did anyone seem interested besides us? Edited December 29, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangNangDoaHoa Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 what the heck?? lol, now i got accused of selling Ellis' system?? i had disappeared from BF and BTC and didn't put up any posts for a long time. now am a suspect of doing so lol. Quote ("-_-)*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnChamer Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hey Ellis, I think you should email the fella' an "updated, New & improved version" of NOR approach with botched up formulas and instructions. HA Ha! just kidding .... Then "he, the blind can lead the other blind suckers for not paying the rightfully party for the Real format"Just a thought but not realistic, just trying to throw a little humor about this mess.I paid fair and square with no regrets!Thanks for your great support Ellis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 what the heck?? lol, now i got accused of selling Ellis' system?? i had disappeared from BF and BTC and didn't put up any posts for a long time. now am a suspect of doing so lol.It's OK Tang, don't worry about it. Some of the guys did not see your post over at BF until after we had settled the issue between us. You kept your word and now everybody knows that. Good man!You couldn't have taught those guys anything anyway. I know because I tried. What's left over there is totally unteachable. Their best people came to us a long time ago and left the site completely devastated. That's why they banned me. BF is the dumbest site on the internet now, well except maybe for gamblersglen. They deserve Killer. They will all lose their shirts and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hey Ellis, I think you should email the fella' an "updated, New & improved version" of NOR approach with botched up formulas and instructions. HA Ha! just kidding .... Then "he, the blind can lead the other blind suckers for not paying the rightfully party for the Real format"Just a thought but not realistic, just trying to throw a little humor about this mess.I paid fair and square with no regrets!Thanks for your great support EllisHa, they've already got the blind leading the blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Their brightest guy at BF is Archer aka Jimske. Ha says he watched me play Taj 2 and that I lost. 240 people watched Taj 2 including the infamous Jerry Patterson and his wife Nancy. It was in the high stakes room. I bought in for one stack of ten blacks. Less than a half hour later I quit as soon as I completed my 11th pile of ten blacks. Did exactly the same thing at Taj 1 two weeks earlier. Apparantly Jimske has trouble counting stacks of 10.Their X member Garnabby did the same thing after watching us play Gold Coast Vegas. He watched Zebra and me and two other members absolutely kill a shoe losing only 3 hands out of 22. Next day he posted that we lost. When I called him out on it he then posted that he was never there. That after introducing himself to 15 of us right at the table. That guy just isn't right in the head.So next BF staged a Baccarat Tournament. Our only two entries, Andrea and Zebra took first and second place by a mile. So they called us scammers. There is just no hope for those guys still at BF. Some people are just too dumb to be allowed in casinos.Those guys are unteachable. Might as well try to teach your Christmas tree. But there's not a damn thing we can do about it. I know, I tried. Ha, and they think they are going to beat a casino. God help us!If anybody wants to copy these posts over to BF, be my guest. But they'll just call you names. That's the only thing they are good at. They call me a scammer, then they listen to a guy named Killer! There is such a thing as born losers. Edited December 29, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users donw Posted December 31, 2011 Users Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 You know I just saw this for the first time and reading their posts it looks like their just playing they are not serious about the game also can we change our forum at least change the color it looks like theirs just my 2 cents this an awesome forum thanks Ellis and Keith Happy New Year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) You know I just saw this for the first time and reading their posts it looks like their just playing they are not serious about the game also can we change our forum at least change the color it looks like theirs just my 2 cents this an awesome forum thanks Ellis and Keith Happy New YearRight! They've tried a thousand different ways to beat the game but can't even come close. (the tournament proves that much)So now they declare the game Unbeatable. THAT is the bottom line of their forum. This paves the way to declare anyone beating the game - a scammer and a liar no matter how many people watched the player win. Now you know why Garnabby and Archer lied. They HAD to OR declare theirselves stupid! Given that choice.....So their hero Dave who also declared the game unbeatable records 6 shoes I play in AC to the impossible tune of 26% PA.Ha, so now they declare Dave a liar. Dave no longer speaks to them. Good advice!Think about it! Anybody who declares the game unbeatable, yet plays it anyway, is stupid twice over! Edited December 31, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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