# Observations from forum and my last 60 days of play

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

I haven't been on forum in a couple of weeks. I just read all of the million dollar threads. Ironically I have been playing very similar to that over the last month at both Aria and Mirage in Vegas. I grabbed some snippits from several threads, and I'm putting them all into one place after making subtle changes. This is how I have been winning:

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for 3 events and about ten plays

Betting progression is 1-2-2, stop.

After 3 consecutive wins, increase 1 unit. On next loss, go back to 1-2-2.

Never make a 2 unit bet if your score is -2 or worse, flat bet till you get your score up to at least a 0 or -1.

If you lose 3 bets in a row stop and wait till you have 1 or 2 paper wins or you see a good signal to start betting again.

If you lose 2 bets after getting back in it is probably time to quit the shoe and find another one.

Once you reach +5, leave on the next losing bet.

OR count determines mode.

Mode 1, you go OTR (On The Run) after 1 losing bet and stay until you lose.

Mode 2, you go on the run after 2 losing bets and initially stay for 2 bets.

Mode 3, you go on the run after 3 losing bets and stay for 1 bet

EVENTS determine system!

High 1's = S40

But High 1's together with high ST runs and low 2s = S40M1

High 2s = OTB4L - We like to also see high 3s and single 1's with it which we usually do.

Low 2s = S40M1

Low 1s and 2s = TB4L

Strong Side = F3

1's normally occur one every 4 plays on avg.

2s normally occur one every 8 plays on avg.

A + OR count can ONLY occur in high 1's, period.

A - OR count can ONLY occur in low 1's.

So, if you know what 1's and 2s are doing you already know what to play and what mode to play it in. See that?

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

That last line was important enough to list twice.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Figure out a way to win at baccarat that fits your lifestyle, you don't have to eat fish anymore!

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I haven't been on forum in a couple of weeks. I just read all of the million dollar threads. Ironically I have been playing very similar to that over the last month at both Aria and Mirage in Vegas. I grabbed some snippits from several threads, and I'm putting them all into one place after making subtle changes. This is how I have been winning:

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for 3 events and about ten plays

Betting progression is 1-2-2, stop.

After 3 consecutive wins, increase 1 unit. On next loss, go back to 1-2-2.

Never make a 2 unit bet if your score is -2 or worse, flat bet till you get your score up to at least a 0 or -1.

If you lose 3 bets in a row stop and wait till you have 1 or 2 paper wins or you see a good signal to start betting again.

If you lose 2 bets after getting back in it is probably time to quit the shoe and find another one.

Once you reach +5, leave on the next losing bet.

OR count determines mode.

Mode 1, you go OTR (On The Run) after 1 losing bet and stay until you lose.

Mode 2, you go on the run after 2 losing bets and initially stay for 2 bets.

Mode 3, you go on the run after 3 losing bets and stay for 1 bet

EVENTS determine system!

High 1's = S40

But High 1's together with high ST runs and low 2s = S40M1

High 2s = OTB4L - We like to also see high 3s and single 1's with it which we usually do.

Low 2s = S40M1

Low 1s and 2s = TB4L

Strong Side = F3

1's normally occur one every 4 plays on avg.

2s normally occur one every 8 plays on avg.

A + OR count can ONLY occur in high 1's, period.

A - OR count can ONLY occur in low 1's.

So, if you know what 1's and 2s are doing you already know what to play and what mode to play it in. See that?

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

That last line was important enough to list twice.

Hey mike which or counts determine which mode?

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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Hey mike which or counts determine which mode?

AGAIN, +OR count = M3; - OR count = M2

Low 2s = S40M1 - No Mode decisions, no runs decisions.

High 2s = OTB4L

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I haven't been on forum in a couple of weeks. I just read all of the million dollar threads. Ironically I have been playing very similar to that over the last month at both Aria and Mirage in Vegas. I grabbed some snippits from several threads, and I'm putting them all into one place after making subtle changes. This is how I have been winning:

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

Objective: +5 units

Best to wait for 3 events and about ten plays

Betting progression is 1-2-2, stop.

After 3 consecutive wins, increase 1 unit. On next loss, go back to 1-2-2.

Never make a 2 unit bet if your score is -2 or worse, flat bet till you get your score up to at least a 0 or -1.

If you lose 3 bets in a row stop and wait till you have 1 or 2 paper wins or you see a good signal to start betting again.

If you lose 2 bets after getting back in it is probably time to quit the shoe and find another one.

Once you reach +5, leave on the next losing bet.

OR count determines mode.

Mode 1, you go OTR (On The Run) after 1 losing bet and stay until you lose.

Mode 2, you go on the run after 2 losing bets and initially stay for 2 bets.

Mode 3, you go on the run after 3 losing bets and stay for 1 bet

EVENTS determine system!

High 1's = S40

But High 1's together with high ST runs and low 2s = S40M1

High 2s = OTB4L - We like to also see high 3s and single 1's with it which we usually do.

Low 2s = S40M1

Low 1s and 2s = TB4L

Strong Side = F3

1's normally occur one every 4 plays on avg.

2s normally occur one every 8 plays on avg.

A + OR count can ONLY occur in high 1's, period.

A - OR count can ONLY occur in low 1's.

So, if you know what 1's and 2s are doing you already know what to play and what mode to play it in. See that?

Not all tables are playable. Just play the obvious ones. The game is not about guts. It's about smarts - and discipline.

That last line was important enough to list twice.

An excellent all inclusive overview Mike. It makes a good Million Dollar Manual all by itself.

All we need now is a BaOTB4L Chapter - which I'll work on

I realize YOU already know how to do this Mike. Hmm, but you are exceptional. Some of the others need it spelled out separately.

Then I'll put everything related to the +5 Million Dollar Program in ONE sticky thread no one can post on.

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
An excellent all inclusive overview Mike. It makes a good Million Dollar Manual all by itself.

I was basically making myself a 1 page manual that I could print out, and reread several times on each plane ride to Vegas as well as while I am there. Something like the 10 commandments of becoming a millionaire in baccarat. I figured I would share it.

Hmm, but you are exceptional.

I've spent an exceptional amount of money learning, but thanks to you and several of the other members here, the payback will be worth it.

Then I'll put everything related to the +5 Million Dollar Program in ONE sticky thread no one can post on.

Great idea.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Figure out a way to win at baccarat that fits your lifestyle, you don't have to eat fish anymore!

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Ellis, Mike, Jaybird, kdawg, baccdj.......ok everyone

Before you make a sticky thread on this, one quick question about bankroll and money management.

Everyone is at their own place in personal comfort levels, but do you have a general rule of thumb on unit size increases?

Meaning, our goal is say is +5 a shoe right.

So if we start with greens \$25 and say we win 20 shoes net, because we may lose some shoes, that's +100 units.

Is now the time to increase our base bet to say \$50 per hand until we reach another 20 +5 shoes again?

Do you have a rule of thumb for tiered unit size increases?

Thank you

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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Ellis, Mike, Jaybird, kdawg, baccdj.......ok everyone

Before you make a sticky thread on this, one quick question about bankroll and money management.

Everyone is at their own place in personal comfort levels, but do you have a general rule of thumb on unit size increases?

Meaning, our goal is say is +5 a shoe right.

So if we start with greens \$25 and say we win 20 shoes net, because we may lose some shoes, that's +100 units.

Is now the time to increase our base bet to say \$50 per hand until we reach another 20 +5 shoes again?

Do you have a rule of thumb for tiered unit size increases?

Thank you

Better than a rule of thumb. trbfla we have a plan. Sorry, we don't have a manual yet with everything you need to know in one place. But we've had the plan for years. It is burried in the \$30,000 in 30 days thread back near the beginning. Somebody posted the plan there. Take a look. It tells you when to safely attempt raising your stakes at each level. Take a look.

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I've always fancied this idea from a great manual I read 10+ years ago:

E. Clifton Davisâ€™ How to Make a Million Dollars in 10 Days Plan

Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe â€“ try this no risk plan:

Day 1: Play 10 shoes @ \$5 units = wins \$250 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$25 unit buy in.

Day 2: Play 10 shoes @ \$25 units = wins \$1,250 â€“ this gives you 12.5 - \$100 unit buy in.

Day 3: Play 10 shoes @ \$100 units = wins \$5,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$500 unit buy in.

Day 4: Play 10 shoes @ \$500 units = wins \$25,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$1,000 unit buy in.

Day 5: Play 10 shoes @ \$1,000 units = wins \$50,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$5,000 unit buy in.

Day 6-10: Play 40 shoes @ \$5,000 units = wins \$1,081,500

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

Extracted from mentioned thread, post #17

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I've always fancied this idea from a great manual I read 10+ years ago:

E. Clifton Davisâ€™ How to Make a Million Dollars in 10 Days Plan

Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe â€“ try this no risk plan:

Day 1: Play 10 shoes @ \$5 units = wins \$250 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$25 unit buy in.

Day 2: Play 10 shoes @ \$25 units = wins \$1,250 â€“ this gives you 12.5 - \$100 unit buy in.

Day 3: Play 10 shoes @ \$100 units = wins \$5,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$500 unit buy in.

Day 4: Play 10 shoes @ \$500 units = wins \$25,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$1,000 unit buy in.

Day 5: Play 10 shoes @ \$1,000 units = wins \$50,000 â€“ this gives you 10 - \$5,000 unit buy in.

Day 6-10: Play 40 shoes @ \$5,000 units = wins \$1,081,500

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

Extracted from mentioned thread, post #17

OK, thanks. As I mentioned on the other thread, I wrote thas 20 years ago when the game was far easier.

I'll revise the schedule for todays game in the morning. But essentially, an appropriate schedule for today's game is don't graduate to the next level until you have 40 units in the new level. Some, who have achieved a high shoe win rate may want to go faster - say 30 units in the new level. And some may want to go slower.

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I first played with someone who progressed his units as he won, must be almost 20 years ago. He started with 40 units at \$5/unit. Goal was 100 unit win. He then went to \$15 units, using 40 units for this level. He now had his original \$200 plus the \$500, total \$700. 4o units at \$15 is \$600. He's already ahead if he loses. After 100 units he went to \$50, then \$150, and finally \$500 units. When he completed the run, he went back home with \$70K+. Usually did this within 2 weeks. Took a trip 5-6 times a year and made a very good living. Still at it. Saw him a few months ago back here on the coast starting a new run. Note, if he lost the 40 units at whatever level he was at, it was back to the beginning using \$200 bankroll. By the way, he usually made his 100 units in 8-10 shoes.

\$5 tables are a thing of the past, but starting with a \$15 or \$25 initial unit, you can still make a run up the ladder.

If you want to go for a serious run, you have to travel around as you go up...playing at casinos where you won't be considered a big bettor and draw attention. Norm was beginning to wonder if he might be pushing the limit since he was bringing \$30-60K home after each 3 day trip to Biloxi.

Anyways, some thoughts on growing a bankroll, and then having fun doing it over and over again.Bill

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Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe â€“ try this no risk plan:

Level 1: Play 16 Shoes @ \$25 Units = Wins \$2,000 - This gives you 40 - \$50 unit buy in.

Level 2: Play 16 Shoes @ \$50 Units = Wins \$4,000 - This gives you 40 - \$100 unit buy in.

Level 3: Play 16 Shoes @ \$100 Units = Wins \$8,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$200 unit buy in.

Level 4: Play 20 Shoes @ \$200 Units = Wins \$20,000 - This gives you 40 - \$500 unit buy in.

Level 5: Play 16 Shoes @ \$500 Units = Wins \$40,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$1,000 unit buy in.

Level 6: Play 16 Shoes @ \$1,000 Units = Wins \$80,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$2,000 unit buy in.

Level 7: Play 20 Shoes @ \$2,000 Units = Wins \$200,000 - This gives you 40 - \$5,000 unit buy in.

Level 8: Play 32 shoes @ \$5,000 units = wins \$1,000,000 total

This is a very realistic goal and like Ellis said we should be 40 units going into the next round

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

This is the Mechanical part. The easy part. Like Ellis said if you lose then you drop down a level till the bankroll is built up again

I know 152 Shoes Sounds like alot but look at the bright side for the more conservative people ive added 3 more steps to Ellis original plan \$50 \$200 \$2000

Let me know what you guys think!!

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

I think 20 to 25 units per step is plenty. Remember, we have a -5 stop loss. If you are sliding backwards immediately after progressing to the next level, you still have 30-40 units at the prior level. . Also, 25 units represents 5 shoes at +5, which I think is attainable in a single day. Going beyond that is spreading days.

Let's call this the millionaire in a month plan:

Week One Starting Bankroll \$500

\$25 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$625 Won = \$1,125 Total Bankroll.

\$50 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$1,250 Won = \$2,375 Total Bankroll

\$100 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$2,500 Won = \$4,875 Total Bankroll.

Week Two -- Give \$2,375 to Wife and Start with \$2,500 Bankroll

\$100 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$2,500 Won = \$5,000 Total Bankroll.

\$200 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$5,000 Won = \$10,000 Total Bankroll.

\$500 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$12,500 Won = \$22,500 Total Bankroll.

Week Three -- Give \$2,500 to Wife and Start with \$20,000 Bankroll

\$1,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$25,000 Won = \$45,000 Total Bankroll.

\$2,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$50,000 Won = \$95,000 Total Bankroll.

\$4,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$100,000 Won = \$195,000 Total Bankroll.

Week Four -- Give \$45,000 to Lawyer and fly to Vegas with \$150,000 Bankroll

\$5,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$125,000 Won = \$275,000 Bankroll.

\$10,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$250,000 Won = \$525,000 Bankroll.

\$20,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$500,000 Won = \$1,025,000 Bankroll.

Day 29 - Decide what you want to do as a millionaire alone in Vegas!

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Figure out a way to win at baccarat that fits your lifestyle, you don't have to eat fish anymore!

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Well, Im happy to see guys experimenting with their own charts. You quickly see that it is surprisingly simple and quick to get to a million dollars. It doesn't matter much whether you upgrade after achieving 10,20,30,or 40 units in the next denomination. Everyone is going to pace theirselves within their own comfort and skill levels anyway no matter what we say.

We already have a few guys who average 12. We have a whole lot that average 6. But 5 is attainable to anyone who puts the effort, study and practice in. 5 is easy. That's why I picked it. Everybody's chart has one thing in common. All are based on averaging only 5 units a shoe. My objective here is to get you motivated - to give you a good reason to perfect your game to the point of averaging 5 units a shoe - because 5 units is worth a million dollars. Even 4 units will do the trick.

So I'm hoping we are all motivated to embark on a new direction - One that has a plan with incremental achievable goals - that has a destination - a final goal - a final goal worth working for.

The prerequisite is a skill level of 5 units per shoe. Very attainable with the proper motivation and effort.

We only need to know two things:

How to find the right table and

How to play that table.

I'm making that as easy as possible. All 3 systems are played the same way with the same secondary prog.

The shoe tells you whether to play your secondary prog OTR or ATR (On the run or Against the run). Get that right and you will seldom get to a 3 bet before you get to +5.

You don't have to win every shoe: the schedule allows for mishaps. We ALL have those now and then.

And you need a good teacher with a good lesson plan - a curriculum - a schedule of events with good training aids.

So, let's wipe the slate clean and start anew.

A new all inclusive forum properly arranged and easy to follow with lots of shoe examples and play by plays. Dedicated seminars and Webinars.

But mind you, I'm not going to do this for free. I have to be motivated too.

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Fair enough Mr Davis.

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
I first played with someone who progressed his units as he won, must be almost 20 years ago. He started with 40 units at \$5/unit. Goal was 100 unit win. He then went to \$15 units, using 40 units for this level. He now had his original \$200 plus the \$500, total \$700. 4o units at \$15 is \$600. He's already ahead if he loses. After 100 units he went to \$50, then \$150, and finally \$500 units. When he completed the run, he went back home with \$70K+. Usually did this within 2 weeks. Took a trip 5-6 times a year and made a very good living. Still at it. Saw him a few months ago back here on the coast starting a new run. Note, if he lost the 40 units at whatever level he was at, it was back to the beginning using \$200 bankroll. By the way, he usually made his 100 units in 8-10 shoes.

\$5 tables are a thing of the past, but starting with a \$15 or \$25 initial unit, you can still make a run up the ladder.

If you want to go for a serious run, you have to travel around as you go up...playing at casinos where you won't be considered a big bettor and draw attention. Norm was beginning to wonder if he might be pushing the limit since he was bringing \$30-60K home after each 3 day trip to Biloxi.

Anyways, some thoughts on growing a bankroll, and then having fun doing it over and over again.Bill

-------All those times together in Biloxi,and you are just telling me now?

You had the key to the Naval Intelligence equivalent of solving the mystery of TheGoodShipLollipop, and we did not " set sail" on this one?

We could have rescued Gilligan and Company!

------- And gotten Tom Hanks back on The Mainland before it was too late?

HA! Shame on you!

This thread is all about THE PERFECT STORM, and it's a sure thing Clooney and Marky Mark a.k.a. Mark Wahlberg are gonna need some help...

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-------All those times together in Biloxi,and you are just telling me now?

You had the key to the Naval Intelligence equivalent of solving the mystery of TheGoodShipLollipop, and we did not " set sail" on this one?

We could have rescued Gilligan and Company!

------- And gotten Tom Hanks back on The Mainland before it was too late?

HA! Shame on you!

This thread is all about THE PERFECT STORM, and it's a sure thing Clooney and Marky Mark a.k.a. Mark Wahlberg are gonna need some help...

Thank goodness Tom Hanks had His buddy to rely on.... W - I - L - S - O - N !!!

CC

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You need a good teacher with a good lesson plan - a curriculum - a schedule of events with good training aids.

So, let's wipe the slate clean and start anew.

A new all inclusive forum properly arranged and easy to follow with lots of shoe examples and play by plays. Dedicated seminars and Webinars.

But mind you, I'm not going to do this for free. I have to be motivated too.

Despite my earlier reservations, I'm ready to go and pay to learn more. Members eager to pay up for additional instruction in this new direction, that should be some good motivation, right?

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Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe â€“ try this no risk plan:

Level 1: Play 16 Shoes @ \$25 Units = Wins \$2,000 - This gives you 40 - \$50 unit buy in.

Level 2: Play 16 Shoes @ \$50 Units = Wins \$4,000 - This gives you 40 - \$100 unit buy in.

Level 3: Play 16 Shoes @ \$100 Units = Wins \$8,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$200 unit buy in.

Level 4: Play 20 Shoes @ \$200 Units = Wins \$20,000 - This gives you 40 - \$500 unit buy in.

Level 5: Play 16 Shoes @ \$500 Units = Wins \$40,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$1,000 unit buy in.

Level 6: Play 16 Shoes @ \$1,000 Units = Wins \$80,000 â€“ This gives you 40 - \$2,000 unit buy in.

Level 7: Play 20 Shoes @ \$2,000 Units = Wins \$200,000 - This gives you 40 - \$5,000 unit buy in.

Level 8: Play 32 shoes @ \$5,000 units = wins \$1,000,000 total

This is a very realistic goal and like Ellis said we should be 40 units going into the next round

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

This is the Mechanical part. The easy part. Like Ellis said if you lose then you drop down a level till the bankroll is built up again

I know 152 Shoes Sounds like alot but look at the bright side for the more conservative people ive added 3 more steps to Ellis original plan \$50 \$200 \$2000

Let me know what you guys think!!

Shall we form a team of 8 people and each contributes \$1000? With a capital of \$8000, we can start at level 3 with a 40 - \$200 unit buy in. We have remaining 104 shoes to play to win \$1,000,000. We play 10 shoes a day and in 10 days' time, we should win \$1,000,000. Let's be the pioneer team to achieve this \$1,000,000 using the +5 system. Ultimately, each will get \$125,000 and a skill with a confident belief we have achieve this \$1,000,000 goal in baccarat.

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
I think 20 to 25 units per step is plenty. Remember, we have a -5 stop loss. If you are sliding backwards immediately after progressing to the next level, you still have 30-40 units at the prior level. . Also, 25 units represents 5 shoes at +5, which I think is attainable in a single day. Going beyond that is spreading days.

Let's call this the millionaire in a month plan:

Week One Starting Bankroll \$500

\$25 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$625 Won = \$1,125 Total Bankroll.

\$50 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$1,250 Won = \$2,375 Total Bankroll

\$100 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$2,500 Won = \$4,875 Total Bankroll.

Week Two -- Give \$2,375 to Wife and Start with \$2,500 Bankroll

\$100 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$2,500 Won = \$5,000 Total Bankroll.

\$200 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$5,000 Won = \$10,000 Total Bankroll.

\$500 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$12,500 Won = \$22,500 Total Bankroll.

Week Three -- Give \$2,500 to Wife and Start with \$20,000 Bankroll

\$1,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$25,000 Won = \$45,000 Total Bankroll.

\$2,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$50,000 Won = \$95,000 Total Bankroll.

\$4,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$100,000 Won = \$195,000 Total Bankroll.

Week Four -- Give \$45,000 to Lawyer and fly to Vegas with \$150,000 Bankroll

\$5,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$125,000 Won = \$275,000 Bankroll.

\$10,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$250,000 Won = \$525,000 Bankroll.

\$20,000 x +5 per Shoe x 5 Shoes = \$500,000 Won = \$1,025,000 Bankroll.

Day 29 - Decide what you want to do as a millionaire alone in Vegas!

I'll be in Vegas again this weeken looking to complete the \$200 and the \$500 steps.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Figure out a way to win at baccarat that fits your lifestyle, you don't have to eat fish anymore!

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I first played with someone who progressed his units as he won, must be almost 20 years ago. He started with 40 units at \$5/unit. Goal was 100 unit win. He then went to \$15 units, using 40 units for this level. He now had his original \$200 plus the \$500, total \$700. 4o units at \$15 is \$600. He's already ahead if he loses. After 100 units he went to \$50, then \$150, and finally \$500 units. When he completed the run, he went back home with \$70K+. Usually did this within 2 weeks. Took a trip 5-6 times a year and made a very good living. Still at it. Saw him a few months ago back here on the coast starting a new run. Note, if he lost the 40 units at whatever level he was at, it was back to the beginning using \$200 bankroll. By the way, he usually made his 100 units in 8-10 shoes.

\$5 tables are a thing of the past, but starting with a \$15 or \$25 initial unit, you can still make a run up the ladder.

If you want to go for a serious run, you have to travel around as you go up...playing at casinos where you won't be considered a big bettor and draw attention. Norm was beginning to wonder if he might be pushing the limit since he was bringing \$30-60K home after each 3 day trip to Biloxi.

Anyways, some thoughts on growing a bankroll, and then having fun doing it over and over again.Bill

BILL (WAMINC)

Can you explain your friends method of play ? what did he use ?

Did you play as he did and was as successful ?

Thanks ,..........johnny/albuquerque

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Shall we form a team of 8 people and each contributes \$1000? With a capital of \$8000, we can start at level 3 with a 40 - \$200 unit buy in. We have remaining 104 shoes to play to win \$1,000,000. We play 10 shoes a day and in 10 days' time, we should win \$1,000,000. Let's be the pioneer team to achieve this \$1,000,000 using the +5 system. Ultimately, each will get \$125,000 and a skill with a confident belief we have achieve this \$1,000,000 goal in baccarat.

Do we have enough concrete proof and history that the 3 methods Ellis suggest (still has not answered, mine & MVS question on posting rules about those 3 methods) for obtaining + 5 will work consistently ??

And if the 3 + 5's are indeed the way to go . Who and where to play , maybe as a rotating team , would be the next decision. I may be interested if all can be pulled together !

johnny/albuquerque

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Hi pompanomike . I am following your betting plan ,(progression ). And am doing quite well . My local casino's are still using un-opened boxed cards for their games . So using NOR is ideal for me right now . Want to reach that point where i have to travel out of town to make my bets .. am very near that due to following the staking plan ... I usually have to play about 7 to 8 shoes instead of 5 . The Vig and all ..... But the main thing is . It is working ... want to reach my goal of 1 million before my local casinos change to factory shuffle ...

I'm at Week Two , \$200 level , half way there ... some long days involved for me because of other obligations i must attend too . But well worth the time invested when i can play ...

The \$500 level will be tricky for me because the tax man comith when you cash over a certain limit in a 27-hour period ... will need to break up the winnings so i don't get tagged ......

Very reachable goal right now .. ::}}}}. Thanks again for the staking plan . I do like this one ....

mike .

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Johnny,

My friend "charles" played a follow the shoe approach. The only thing he actually tracked was, what we call, the chop or zz. He used the same count of the zz as we use. That is...BBPP would be a 2. BBPBB a 3. He bet 1 or 2 units based on the "predictability of the shoe", not a set prog either neg or positive. He limited bets of 3 or 4 units to 2 bets max a shoe. Stop loss was between 10-20 units. I never saw him lose 20 units.

I had probably a year of experience with baccarat at the time (mid 90's) and runs were still the norm. I had trouble following the shoe as he did due to, what I suspect, was inexperience. So I got away from it.

Bill

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Appreciate you taking the time to answer Bill !

Perfect example of KISS.......sometimes keeping it sweet&simple is all that is needed ! Certainly worked for your friend !

Thanks Again Sir !

johnny/albuquerque

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I'll be in Vegas again this weeken looking to complete the \$200 and the \$500 steps.

Mike, I have been toying with various progressions, and the one you posted looks to have the right mix of upward bet movement and risk management to accomodate temporary drawdowns.

How were your results last weekend?

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