MVSeahog

Greektitan, Well, first off, how long have you been playing whatever method you've been playing? We'll see if anyone wishes to post up their "numbers" for the year, but I doubt you'll see many people jumping in on a thread like this. Not everyone wishes to have it known that they are in substantial profits or losses. Many of us WILL post up nice wins, a good streak and all of that. Specifically asking "How much are you making" is not really a good question. In my case, it's a hobby. I do play mostly online and making the "+5" goal is very attainable in each session but I play a very conservative game, which does limit my real upside. Others are much more aggressive than I am for sure. Lots of those "little" +5 wins add up at the end of the month in the spreadsheet. Keeping accurate records of your play is important as is review of pretty much every shoe played to see where things came into focus or where things went awry, which is where the time spent on practice really comes in. So, have you worn out your first set of cards yet in practice? MVS

Hey! That's where I play when I am forced to visit the in-laws up in Pittsburgh. MVS

Quizzical, Not a stupid question by any stretch of the imagination. I"ve been running with a "test" version of what you've described which amounts to BaS40M3 and it's performing nicely. The fact that so many have "looked" at it (M3) shows that we're all basically coming up with some pretty good ideas once we run the whole idea of "+5" through our usual channels. As Ellis pointed out, being able to handle the 1,2,3 stuff under M3 makes up about 87% of the decisions. Thanks for bringing it up and showing me that I'm in good company with the M3 thought process. MVS

Good catch. MVS

OK, I'm also guilty of not being able to count. The play in question is actually Hand 16. Arrrrgh. I hate it when that happens. MVS

Chief, Jumping in to head off a confusion crisis.... I see the play at hand 27, 43, 53 and 61 are all consistent. They go back to opposite after a red win. The only one that doesn't is hand 7. The second question is the play at hand 17. Is that correct? Other than that, the shoe moved along nicely and more importantly, it actually made sense in the play! Thanks. MVS

Wendel, It would appear that we're all all the same page and coming up with the same questions. I think this is a good thing!! Anyway, I believe the answer to your question, and this is only because I've run into it a few times already is this: B36 is what we're working with at the start of the shoe. Hand 1 - NB Hand 2 - NB Hand 3 - a red zero and it wins meaning we will be betting the 2's do NOT go to 3. Hand 4 - lose 1 and it ends that sequence. Hand 5 - is the first oppostite (S40M1) wager and it also loses. Hand 6 - bets that the two will stay a two. It loses. Hand 7 - restarts the opposites of S40M1. It loses. Hand 8 - Bets under the previous hand as it is NOT a "2" and we're playing S40M1, which is the normal wager. Hand 9 - Wins as it is a regular S40M1 wager OTR. At least that's how I understand the logic of the play. Without a "2" in the mix, there is no "progression in a progression" wager. If I am incorrect, I'm sure someone will come to our aid. MVS (for some reason this method has grabbed me pretty good) Hmm, I see Commander Ellis posted up the reply while I was making mine! Oh well, it was a good try. I missed the "3's will go to 4" thing. Arrrrgh.

Darn it. I missed that note. (continues from 3iars only). Just "misplayed" 5 test shoes. I'll redo them on the fly and see how it comes out. MVS (all 5 did profit though)

Brian, OK, at least we're on the same page as I was about to ask the same question. Thanks for beating me to the punch! MVS

Kachatz1,Thanks. My wife keeps nagging me to make a run over to Biloxi "one of these days" and at least now I'll have some idea of where to go!! MVS

Keith, An interestng observation. I can see taking some time to review a group of shoes in my "downtime" to see if anything "stands out", so to speak. MVS

Why? Why? Why? Anyway, because I didn't play today, I glanced at your tote board and came away with +13 based on where you said you started and with the rest of the shoe as posted. Please post up the shoes correctly. I did not use NOR based on what you posted with this message. Is this a test or are you still on your single handed conquest of NOR the hard way? MVS

G, Head on down to the local store and purchase eight decks of cards. Shuffle them and play your own game, one hand at a time at home. Do not cheat, do not make fake wagers. Practice it FOR REAL. Write down every hand as you play it. If you don't understand WHY you're making a particular wager, write the question down and stop playing until you get an answer. You will be amazed at how well you can learn the rules of the game and play at speed while marking and making notes after awhile. Anyway, it beats sitting there staring at a computer screen while the fuzzy live video ambles along. And in my case, shuffling the cards is pretty much my exercise for the evening. MVS

Chief, The object of this play is not to try to win the shoe. The object here is to try to post up a shoe (The Sugar House shoe) and play it completely through using the appropriate rules of the play. S40M1, BaS40, S40M2, BaOTB4L. Right now we've got everybody playing four plays six different ways and I was hoping to get everybody on the same page so we can all move forward IN SYNC!! There was no attempt to change system plays in either shoe demonstration. It was strictly an exercise in playing one method all the way through the shoe to show the various combinations that come up. If we can nail down all three (or four) primary plays, this will really help out a lot of people, including me! As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, once we do have them "nailed down" we can make a new thread with only the sample play in it so it can be referrenced by everyone as needed. Does that sound like a good plan? MVS

Steve, Thanks for asking up. Here goes my best "explanation" of the play. At hand 6 I had no data on 3's or 4's so just assumed it would stop at 3 THE FIRST TIME. Notice at hand 22 we did make the change to follow the "3" because it had already happened previously. Yes, the previous runs had all gone 3+ so the call was to continue with that. When it lost, you go right back into the Opposites play starting at 1 unit. Also notice that at hand 49 the wager was for the "3" to go to "4" because of the number of times it already did that. Notice the only "3" streak in that shoe was at hands 40-42. If everyone reading this thread who may be involved agrees, we can move on to the BaOTB4L play and get that one mapped out. Once again, if anyone tracked down and copied the play, post it up here or PM me and I'll run it on this same shoe so we can all see how to play it correctly. We've nailed down two of them, let's get the third one down! MVS

All, OK, here's the promised "updated" Sugar House shoe done in BaS40 as corrected by "several" people to me. Once again, if we need to change this, let me know and I'll get it done. We have to nail down these three plays if we're going to make any progress. Once they are finalized, I'll post all three plays (S40M1, BaS40 and BaOTB4L) in one clean thread for reference. I'll make my feeble attempt at BaOTB4L tomorrow, I hope. If anyone else would like to post up what they believe is the correct play for BaOTB4L, be my guest and we'll all correct or OK it so we can move on. Once again, any questions or corrections on this particular shoe, please speak up. MVS (Always ready to learn)

Jerryczy, Thanks. I knew there was something I was missing on that and you described it. I'll redo the shoe and repost on Wednesday. Thanks. MVS

Note to any latecomers to the thread. This shoe is NOT played correctly but it is left here for thread integrity. Continue to read and you'll come to the correct version. MVS ============================================================== All, OK, here goes my best attempt at this. It will be on the same Sugar House shoe posted earlier. One caveat with this. Try as I might, I can NOT find the thread or message with the original explanation of BaS40. I know I've seen it somewhere as I wrote down the play so I could keep it separate from other plays in the "+5 Million Dollar" challenge. If anyone has the actual rules and finds that this play is incorrect, PLEASE let us all know and I'll get it corrected and reuploaded. With that said, here's what I believe to be BaS40. Now all we need is BaOTB4L explained and we'll be off to the races. We'll get these three plays under control if it's the last thing we do!! MVS (relearning right along with everybody else)

BaccDJ126, Not a problem. That's why we post things up. To make sure we're all doing this correctly. I had help with S40M1 as I didn't "get it" at the start but another member clued me in as I was still working on S40 and it wasn't the same. Everybody wins when we learn something. I know I did. MVS

Steve, Yes, I am. Yes, I'll post up the same shoe under BaS40 after lunch. Right now my brain is so fried I couldn't even play the morning shoe in the "Million Dollar Quest". Actually, I've already got it (BaS40) played out but just haven't scanned it for posting yet. I'll get it this afternoon. I'm thinking if we can get a good shoe example for each wagering play, it can be put in its own "picture" thread for future reference with no questions on the play, just the graphics. Questions can be asked separately by pointing to the appropriate picture until we get them all done right, for once and for all!! MVS

Gentlemen, I believe that shoe just played was incorrect in the use of S40M1. I have taken the liberty of transcribing it to another sheet and playing it using S40M1 as I understand the rules AND from looking at the sample that Ellis posted up awhile back. I "flat bet" it as the original poster did. If this interpretation is NOT correct, please let me know and we'll get a correct posting up in an area where we can collect all of the major plays in one thread. As I'm currently only "up to speed" with S40M1 and BaS40, those are the only two I have hard copies of for now. I believe I can explain pretty much any hand in this shoe if you need to ask a question about it. Once again, if this is NOT correct, please let me know and we'll all get back on the same sheet of paper for moving forward. S40M1 NEEDS long streaks and lots of ones! MVS (still testing graphics sizes for posting)

Blake, And welcome to the forum to you, too! Nice introduction to the group. (where's my sarcasm font?) I don't believe you'll find anyone in the "private" forum saying they have the Holy Grail. You're the one who is jumping in with both feet here. Anyway, welcome aboard and here's hoping you can add the to collective knowledge of the players here. MVS

Hammie, Once you figure out everything there is to know about NOR and all that, go back and read a few more sections and "learn" how to post up a transcribed shoe here. It will help in the long run. MVS

Quizzical, That's the way I see it also. At least that's the way I'm interpreting what I've read so far. MVS

Very true. Running sheets on a "new" system play will allow you to see how it flows with your game AND you'll have the mechanics of it down pat in no time, but it does require the time to practice with it, and not just 25 minutes or so. Plan on a few long evenings just putting in the time. MVS