testimonial SYSTEM 40 MANDATORY 1 seems to be doing OK } ECD GROUP | November 3, 2013

[Guest]

Ellis,

That's all fine but, if you want to be fair to all on here - than they should have the option of purchasing the webinar as well to improve their play.

I'm sure that if the players who attended post posative results from the webinar that

Other members will be interested in obtaining it and in turn increasing your overall

Participation at the next event. Win/Win

Exactly right Ed and they DO have that option and we encourage that. Keith told me last night it will be available shortly. It would be nice if everybody got a copy. Then we could discuss it openly on the forum. BTW if I seem to be picking on you, I'm not - not at all. That is not something we do at BTC. And you are one of our best supporters. Relax, Decaf!

[Edgonsal]

Exactly right Ed and they DO have that option and we encourage that. Keith told me last night it will be available shortly. It would be nice if everybody got a copy. Then we could discuss it openly on the forum. BTW if I seem to be picking on you, I'm not - not at all. That is not something we do at BTC. And you are one of our best supporters. Relax, Decaf!

Thanks Ellis,

I just amended my last post (sent from my cell). I do totally support this forum. Oh well, back to business as usual. I'm off to Mohegan first & then Foxwoods! BTW - as you mentioned, everyone is always trying to figure out my scorecard LOL

[Guest]

Hi Ellis

The info from the Webinar was priceless.

Thanks

If you set on the 3 Bet,

Would you set for one Bet?

Or would you set until you get a Win on paper?

LittleJim

Jim, that is the question of the moment! I'll answer you privately shortly.

[Guest]

Thanks Ellis,

I just amended my last post (sent from my cell). I do totally support this forum. Oh well, back to business as usual. I'm off to Mohegan first & then Foxwoods! BTW - as you mentioned, everyone is always trying to figure out my scorecard LOL

You're in jail?

[Keith Smith]

Team

For those who attended the seminar I haveposted all the raw files

Two Videos and the final section as an audio only.

You can view them here

http://beatthecasino.com/videos/4d/index.html

It will prompt you for a user name and password which I emailed individually to all the attendees last night. I gave each of you a unique login and password. Please email me if you didn't receive it or have issues.

If you missed the seminar and want the videos you can join at the top just add the to the shopping cart.

I will be editing the Audios and Videos and give you a refined version with all the irrelevant information out but many want the stuff right away so there you go.

Thanks for your support

Keith

[bigcash2002]

The recent developments in our forum is impressive and very encouraging. I'm a novice still and learning and utilizing the tools in NOR.

Just to clarify, would it be correct to say that members should first begin by mastering the fundamentals of NOR?

Next, learn NOR +

Then 4D...which could be also considered NOR + +

?

[bigcash2002]

I like the idea of having more seminars, instructional courses...for example:

NOR basics

how to incorporate NOR + to your game

4D or S40M1

[bigcash2002]

I would like to learn this BJ method as well, to play when BAC tables are scarce. Is this the same method being taught on Nov. 30th?

Also, generally speaking, is it easier to learn and put into action than NOR?? I want to spend the majority of my time mastering NOR, NOR+ and S40M1/4D

But, I would love to learn this BJ method if it is quick to implement.

[PeterUK]

Yes, learning the BJ method would be useful alternative game at the casino during our downtime on Baccarat... I.e. Not many tables available, few open, not a good time to jump in, etc... Wind down?

[Edgonsal]

You're in jail?

Ha Ha - I'm still a fugitive in the Baccarat world. LOL

BTW - I know this thread is for S40M1 but wanted to share these 2 shoes.

played at huge bias table at Foxwoods yesterday for OTB4L

1ST Shoe - B2432132111 P1121212212221 B1221221121222 B1 (scores + 28 units with only a 2 high bet then back to 1 win or lose)

2nd shoe - P3122131111211 P22221223112 P1212133241 B1131 (scores + 30 units with only a 2 high bet)

These were hand shuffled cards at a no commission table.

Table selection is SOOOOOOO crucial. NOR is my head now! Thanks Ellis

The table right next to me was a strong side table for 3 straight shoes in a row with common runs of 6 iar's & more all over the board.

It's my pleasure to post these shoes for a great example of OTB4L and hope that it helps, Ed

[Guest]

Ha Ha - I'm still a fugitive in the Baccarat world. LOL

BTW - I know this thread is for S40M1 but wanted to share these 2 shoes.

played at huge bias table at Foxwoods yesterday for OTB4L

1ST Shoe - B2432132111 P1121212212221 B1221221121222 B1 (scores + 28 units with only a 2 high bet then back to 1 win or lose)

2nd shoe - P3122131111211 P22221223112 P1212133241 B1131 (scores + 30 units with only a 2 high bet)

These were hand shuffled cards at a no commission table.

Table selection is SOOOOOOO crucial. NOR is my head now! Thanks Ellis

The table right next to me was a strong side table for 3 straight shoes in a row with common runs of 6 iar's & more all over the board.

It's my pleasure to post these shoes for a great example of OTB4L and hope that it helps, Ed

Wow! You really had a great day! And no one is more deserving.

And guys, Ed brings up a VERY strong point. Even when you are playing - notice what is going on around you. Be casino savvy! You may well see that you aren't at the best table. Fix that!

[stevep]

Where is the S40 mode 1 shoe that was used in the webinar posted?

[Guest]

Where is the S40 mode 1 shoe that was used in the webinar posted?

Steve, I'll PM it to you.

[Rich333]

Team

For those who attended the seminar I haveposted all the raw files

Two Videos and the final section as an audio only.

You can view them here

http://beatthecasino.com/videos/4d/index.html

It will prompt you for a user name and password which I emailed individually to all the attendees last night. I gave each of you a unique login and password. Please email me if you didn't receive it or have issues.

If you missed the seminar and want the videos you can join at the top just add the to the shopping cart.

[ATTACH]2663[/ATTACH]

I will be editing the Audios and Videos and give you a refined version with all the irrelevant information out but many want the stuff right away so there you go.

Thanks for your support

Keith

Keith, please notify me/us/everyone when the final edited version is available...thank you

[CdnChamer]

So.... If one finds that S40 M1 is not working during play, do we abandon the shoe or change to NOR. OTB4L, etc ?

Not all shoes like S40 M1. To the TT's

CC

[Guest]

So.... If one finds that S40 M1 is not working during play, do we abandon the shoe or change to NOR. OTB4L, etc ?

Not all shoes like S40 M1. To the TT's

CC

Absolutely correct: S40M1 likes one thing only - low 2s. A shoe could start that way but not stay that way.

S40M1 is just one NOR selection. Like always, our job is to determine the best NOR system and the best mode for the shoe at hand.

We can view switching as a necessary evil that should be kept to an absolute min through enlightened table selection.

When proper table selection is impossible due to crowding or whatever, we are better off with the 4D.

The 4D is not nearly as dependent on table selection.

[newbacplayer]

Quick question: Since S40M1 likes everything except TTs, and since OTB4L loves TTs; from a pure logic perspective, are these not really the only two systems necessary to win? I know that you talk about having many tools, but it would seem that these two tools cover virtually every possible situation. The key question would be when or if to change from one to the other within a shoe.

[CdnChamer]

Quick question: Since S40M1 likes everything except TTs, and since OTB4L loves TTs; from a pure logic perspective, are these not really the only two systems necessary to win? I know that you talk about having many tools, but it would seem that these two tools cover virtually every possible situation. The key question would be when or if to change from one to the other within a shoe.

Here's an interesting thought, since two system rant the same and will sometimes agree with each other..... In team play with two people with joint bankroll, perhaps it may be possible for one to use SM40M1 and the other play OTB4L simultaneously the outcome of the units won/loss differential or positive would be interesting to test or observe if it can actually work?

Or...

If one were clever enough to track both system simultaneously and play the differential bet units from both system,.... And select one system over the other, hmmmm.... Complex, but you never know..

Just food for thought, comments?

CC

[Edgonsal]

Quick question: Since S40M1 likes everything except TTs, and since OTB4L loves TTs; from a pure logic perspective, are these not really the only two systems necessary to win? I know that you talk about having many tools, but it would seem that these two tools cover virtually every possible situation. The key question would be when or if to change from one to the other within a shoe.

You bring up a good point. I have been going over my recently played cards trying to combine the OTB & S40M1.

Works pretty well on over 80% of all shoes. I played both sides for both sides to win with a 1,2 progression

I Bet 1 unit on the side that just lost, a little tricky to do so I put both columns on my score card.

I tried it out at Foxwoods $10 table (was up 2 units from the last shoe) I figured that I would only be down 6 units if it lost - no biggie.

The shoe B1311223112 I was on the wrong side for every bet.

If I played S40M1 alone I would have been +4

If I played OTB I would have been up between +2 to +5units (depending on when you go OTR). I do after 2 losses.

I should have only played one way!!!

I've thought about waiting after a 3 iar to cut out the some of the losses with both systems combined.

There is no Holy grail, but we're trying LOL What are your thoughts on this?

[Edgonsal]

Here's an interesting thought, since two system rant the same and will sometimes agree with each other..... In team play with two people with joint bankroll, perhaps it may be possible for one to use SM40M1 and the other play OTB4L simultaneously the outcome of the units won/loss differential or positive would be interesting to test or observe if it can actually work?

Or...

If one were clever enough to track both system simultaneously and play the differential bet units from both system,.... And select one system over the other, hmmmm.... Complex, but you never know..

Just food for thought, comments?

CC

Most shoes that I tested worked well with a 2 man system Usually +8 to +10units within 35-40 hands.

The bet progression is the tricky part. I like the 1,2 but maybe a 1,2,3 U1D1 would be better?

Some shoes would have been better with S40 & OTB rather than S40M1.

Scorecard is easy O/R (if you want) P - B "space for score" S40 column - OTB column CIRCLE YOUR WINS and units bet in S40 & OTB columns

I'm thinking of a 16 unit bankroll for two people. Try it and let me know what you think

[Guest]

Guys, good thinking BUT you are not thinking it all the way through. You don't need a partner. Anything a partner can do, you can do by yourself net betting. You end up with the same score as two partners end up with but you only bet half as much money getting there so you double your PA.

You need to go back and read one of my explanations of net betting. I've written them several times on both the public and private forums so I'm sure you can find one if you look.

But in short, suppose you end up with a 4 bet on B and your partner ends up with a 2 bet on P. Your bets would both be 2 on B. You end up with exactly the same score totals but you've bet far less money. There is nothing a partner can do for you that you can't do by yourself. And if two partners each net bet both end up with the same total score as two partners get combined. So with net betting you basically make twice as much money while betting half as much. And it is VERY easy once you get the hang of it. Probably less than 1% of Bac players know about net betting. I developed this back in the '90s. Since then a Baccarat partner has been totally obsolete. You are your own partner.

Remember that guy Kachatz was talking about at Mo Sun that was teaching that partners system that was advertized all over the internet. As soon as I saw that I knew the guy was a beginner amateur. How could a learned system designer still be advocating a partner when net betting makes a partner totally obsolete??? These scammers are a dime a dozen. Maybe he wasn't a scammer. Maybe he was just incompetent. Either way.....

[CdnChamer]

Guys, good thinking BUT you are not thinking it all the way through. You don't need a partner. Anything a partner can do, you can do by yourself net betting. You end up with the same score as two partners end up with but you only bet half as much money getting there so you double your PA.

You need to go back and read one of my explanations of net betting. I've written them several times on both the public and private forums so I'm sure you can find one if you look.

But in short, suppose you end up with a 4 bet on B and your partner ends up with a 2 bet on P. Your bets would both be 2 on B. You end up with exactly the same score totals but you've bet far less money. There is nothing a partner can do for you that you can't do by yourself. And if two partners each net bet both end up with the same total score as two partners get combined. So with net betting you basically make twice as much money while betting half as much. And it is VERY easy once you get the hang of it. Probably less than 1% of Bac players know about net betting. I developed this back in the '90s. Since then a Baccarat partner has been totally obsolete. You are your own partner.

Remember that guy Kachatz was talking about at Mo Sun that was teaching that partners system that was advertized all over the internet. As soon as I saw that I knew the guy was a beginner amateur. How could a learned system designer still be advocating a partner when net betting makes a partner totally obsolete??? These scammers are a dime a dozen. Maybe he wasn't a scammer. Maybe he was just incompetent. Either way.....

Yes, this was my second option in my post about this suggestion, I just didn't use the term net betting, thanks for your insight Ellis, and sounds like this could be an interesting approach but perhaps S40M1 vs NOR+ utilizing all 3 systems including switching.

I see your point with high PA Ellis.

CC

[kachatz1]

His name is Dave Gunas, you can google .... He is a nice person, and he will introduce you to his family...

Played his team concept with him and others on team, and as Ellis says, you can do it all by yourself...

PS-1. Utube videos are a " teaser" for what is essentially U1D1 / d'Alembert betting system

PS-2. Videos DO NOT REPRESENT what DG "system" is all about

PS-3. Not sure of current pricing, but when I went to visit, price being asked for was $7,500....quickly discerned anyone who would " invest" was getting "the same" from Ellis as a " freebie" along with their paid NOR membership ( simple Net betting, whether "team", or Army of One!)

The NetBetting concept becomes very easy to understand, and can easily be done all by yourself with just the pointers Ellis provides....

[Guest]

Which brings up a VERY important point with the 4D - something we looked at with fascinating interest.

What happens if you simply net bet the lowest of the 4 counts???? Well I'll tell you. You win virtually every shoe.

Net betting functions on LACK of disparity. Your lowest count of the 4 is the count with the LEAST disparity.

See where I'm going?

Suppose one of your counts stays between -3 and +3? Or here is a better way to look at it. Suppose one of your counts has a total max disparity of 6? This is extremely common.

In other words, put simply: Suppose P never gets more than 3 ahead of B and vice versa. Well if you net bet the two with a 1234 prog, you CAN'T lose and furthermore your highest bet ever is 3. See that? When one is at a 4 bet the other is always at least at 1. With net betting you subtract the difference between your two bets and bet the difference on the side of your highest bet.

And with the 4D we ALWAYS know which count has the least disparity. It is ALWAYS your lowest numerical count. It is about as close to a sure win as you can get.

So do we always do that? No. but when one of our counts can't get out of jail, it is a sure way to win. And this happens a LOT. But when all the counts take off then our highest count is the count of interest. See that? With the 4D there is always a way to win - no matter what the shoe does.

[Edgonsal]

Guys, good thinking BUT you are not thinking it all the way through. You don't need a partner. Anything a partner can do, you can do by yourself net betting. You end up with the same score as two partners end up with but you only bet half as much money getting there so you double your PA.

You need to go back and read one of my explanations of net betting. I've written them several times on both the public and private forums so I'm sure you can find one if you look.

But in short, suppose you end up with a 4 bet on B and your partner ends up with a 2 bet on P. Your bets would both be 2 on B. You end up with exactly the same score totals but you've bet far less money. There is nothing a partner can do for you that you can't do by yourself. And if two partners each net bet both end up with the same total score as two partners get combined. So with net betting you basically make twice as much money while betting half as much. And it is VERY easy once you get the hang of it. Probably less than 1% of Bac players know about net betting. I developed this back in the '90s. Since then a Baccarat partner has been totally obsolete. You are your own partner.

Remember that guy Kachatz was talking about at Mo Sun that was teaching that partners system that was advertized all over the internet. As soon as I saw that I knew the guy was a beginner amateur. How could a learned system designer still be advocating a partner when net betting makes a partner totally obsolete??? These scammers are a dime a dozen. Maybe he wasn't a scammer. Maybe he was just incompetent. Either way.....

I've played at the table with Dave Gunas at Mohegan a few times. (Never saw him win - Go figure????). When I saw him, he was playing around with dragon bets. He hit a 30 to 1 which put him up and a couple of ties. He didn't leave when he hit a reasonable goal so they took his money. He is very personable and has great energy!!!! Maybe I just saw him on a bad day?

I've used net betting on my scorecards and in the casino. It easy to do and it works. I've done it for years now when trying out new approaches. Personally I enjoy playing together with a partner. Helps break up the boredom