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U3Hi/U1Hi


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Ellis, this looks like the same shoe you posted the other day. Honestly, I don't think this is really the ideal test shoe. 26 of 32 events are 1's and 2's, yet not a single back to back 22? One can only pray for this easy shoe in the casino -- but what about some more typical shoes? How is this coming along with your "tester" across a larger number of shoes? Any ideas on how to solve the problem of losing up to 5 units on some 2iar and some 3iar?

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When I get some time tomorrow I will run this new variation off over 700+ real live casino shoes that I have recorded in last month from the MicroGaming live dealer platform (used by DublinBet, 32Red and a few other online casinos).

For some clarification Ellis, could you provide what the stop loss and stop win is?

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The corrected card is good. Im more interested in the U1Hi part of this. Ellis are you planning on just flat betting 1 unit on the higher of the net bet result from the same 234 progression? It must be something else...I know how much you hate flat betting :)

Yes we will get to that shortly. Correct, flat bet at 1 unit and your goal is 2 units. But you can restart in the same shoe.

The origional purpose of this thread was to ask whether you wanted me to pursue 1Hi or 3Hi.

But I already know the answer:

Both!

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When I get some time tomorrow I will run this new variation off over 700+ real live casino shoes that I have recorded in last month from the MicroGaming live dealer platform (used by DublinBet, 32Red and a few other online casinos).

For some clarification Ellis, could you provide what the stop loss and stop win is?

Kit, my born knickname is "Kit". Pretty rare. For 6 years I had been Kit Davis. I didn't know my real first name until my new father was walking me to the first day of first grade. I had never heard the name Ellis before and he was a new father with a new last name which I had also never heard before. But not knowing my name that first day of school was not my biggest problem. I had spent my first 6 years in Charleston, S.C. and had the thickest southern drawl possible. I was going to first grade in Syracuse, NY which has the thickest yankee speak there is. I couldn't understand a word they were saying and they couldn't understand a word I was saying. Ha, like teaching Baccarat.

Kit thanks but hold off. We haven't got the final rules yet. I don't think we should be making that 4 entry every time.

But I don't yet know the signal for when we should and when we shouldn't but I think that is the key missing ingrediant.

But all reports good and bad are welcome. We need to know what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong and how to fix it.

With the existing rules the culprit is 5s instead of 3s. This is much better because 5s occur only 1/4 as often as 3s. But also we lose less on a 5 than we did on a 3. Look at play 65. Had we lost that play our score would be 31. Our score before the run was 33. So we lost 2 units on a 5. That's a whole lot better than losing 4 units on a 3. Note that we won all 3s and some by a lot. We won all 4s and all runs more than 5.

1's and 2s are both iffy but overall we do good on them. The 7 ZZ we only won 1 unit. We would have been much better off W/O the 4 entry BUT, what is a good signal for that???

So far, therefore subject to change, it looks like +10 -10. But, as you can see,

this system has the ability to occassionally go clear to +50 in a full but normal shoe

so we need to control by capture rather than stop win.

It is too soon for big tests. We are still creating.

Edited by Ellis
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Ellis, this looks like the same shoe you posted the other day. Honestly, I don't think this is really the ideal test shoe. 26 of 32 events are 1's and 2's, yet not a single back to back 22? One can only pray for this easy shoe in the casino -- but what about some more typical shoes? How is this coming along with your "tester" across a larger number of shoes? Any ideas on how to solve the problem of losing up to 5 units on some 2iar and some 3iar?

Right, the same shoe corrected to the rules thus far. And right,

the first 2 we lost 3

but the 2nd 2 we gained 7

and the 3rd 2 we lost 1

but the 4th 2 we gained 7

the 5th 2 we lost 2

and the 6th we won 7

I don't think 2s are our problem

The 3,3 gained 9.

The first 3 gained 5

The last 3 gained 4

3's aren't our problem either.

Neither are 1's.

But they are all very volitile so our score needs room to maneuver.

Ha, right, this is not an ideal test shoe - whatever that is. But it is a NORMAL choppy shoe.

But that was not my purpose for posting.

My purpose was to teach how the system is played to the rules thus far.

Unlike you, most here can't play a shoe from written rules.

They need a sample shoe posted - preferably color coded.

Most still will be unable to play it.

They need a play by play.

Most everything that can happen happens in this shoe except a TT run

So I'll add a TT run before I do a play by play.

But even with a play by play, many still won't be able to play it

I'll sic Steve on them

But even still...

So we'll need a blackboard teaching seminar - probably two days

Fortunately I have a lot of patience - usually

But you have to remember back when you first started - back when you didn't know an Opposite from a Repeat.

Most here still don't automatically know an OTB4L play from a TB4L play -

much less how to bet two 234 progs at the same time on them

For the beginners, every play from play 3 on in every shoe is either an OTB4L play or a TB4L play.

Your first step is to learn the difference. Learn color coding.

A little practice and you will learn it just like way2fast did, just like Norm did, just like Oz did. Well, I'm not too sure about Oz.

Edited by Ellis
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New guys: What the experienced players here are trying to say is:

Don't think this shoe is typical.

We aren't going to be pushing 50 every shoe.

A good score for a 3Hi system is +10.

However, this shoe demonstrates that sometimes we can do very well on a normal shoe.

The culptit is 5s, either ST or ZZ or TT (BB PP B)

This shoe has no ST or TT 5s but only about half of all hoes do.

It does have a ZZ 5 starting at play 36. However our "back to 0 on a winning 4 entry" rule turns about half of all 5s into winners.

In this case we end up winning 9 units ON OUR CULPRIT ZZ 5.

Perhaps you are beginning to see the reason behind the rule???

It turns about half of our culprit 5s into BIG winners

even though they weren't doing us that much damage in the first place.

These guys have never seen a 3Hi system hit +50 before

So, they are leary of it.

It won't hit +50 very often but it DOES have that capacity even in a quite normal shoe.

We NEVER had that with a 3 Hi system before but we obviously do now.

This just happened to be the top shoe on my pile. I couldn't believe it either.

+44 on a normal 58 play shoe - IMPOSSIBLE, but.....

Recognize that the average 8 deck shoe length is 72 plays not counting ties

By the time I add a TT run it WILL hit +50 and still be a short shoe.

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So OK here is the same shoe with 5 plays added at the end to form a 7 play TT run so you can see how it behaves on a TT run.

We hit +50 even though this shoe is still 9 plays short of a full shoe.

This brings the PA up to 51% - something else we've never seen before.

post-8-14500262621281_thumb.jpg

Edited by Ellis
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But Ellis you used a ringer shoe with a 9iar in it!

Well there happened to be a 9 in my top shoe that my tester had just sent me which he can confirm.

But OK, remove the 9 iar completely.

Our score before the 9 was 33.

Our score after the 9 was 39.

So we made 6 units on the 9.

So subtract 6 units from our score.

See that?

Now 4 is our longest ST run

But we still made +44 units on the shoe.

It wasn't the 7 ZZ either. We only made 1 unit on it.

The main reason our score is so high is we won 6 out of 7 3 bets.

AND we made the culprit the much rarer 5 instead of 3

AND we figured out how to win big on half our culprits.

When we keep putting ourselves in position to win big, eventually we inevitably will.

The trick is to put yourself in that position W/O taking big risks.

I guarantee you - we will STILL be betting the least chips of anyone at the table

but still usually be the biggest winners. Ha, usually the only winner.

Even though we were betting 234 progs, our average bet size was only 1.55 chips.

You'll pretty much always be the lowest bettor at the table AND the biggest winner.

In Baccarat, as in life, you can't always be only looking at the negative side of everything.

My job is to turn negative things into positive things. I think I'm doing pretty good so far.

Ha, but way2fast, kit, keep identifying our weaknesses.

I need to know what they are before I can fix them.

Edited by Ellis
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Hand 43 I don't apply the 3 0s rules but it doesn' t change the result much

Bernard

Loses 5 units to a 5iar; loses 8 (!) units to a 4iar, and STILL loses to the chop. Ouch!! There is just too much volatility in this method of play. Why play this way when there are so many ways here at BTC to consistently win?

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Loses 5 units to a 5iar; loses 8 (!) units to a 4iar, and STILL loses to the chop. Ouch!! There is just too much volatility in this method of play. Why play this way when there are so many ways here at BTC to consistently win?

I agree. Very difficult to find a universal mechanical method that can apply to any type of shoes and win most of them , it is a challenge !

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Ellis,

You may want to look at not going to 0 after a winning 4 all the time. You may want to use the OTBL/TBL count to determine if that is a weak 4. If the count is in "jail" its okay to go to the 2 after a winning 4. Something to consider. Or use the count to determine the length of the progression.

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Ellis,

You may want to look at not going to 0 after a winning 4 all the time. You may want to use the OTBL/TBL count to determine if that is a weak 4. If the count is in "jail" its okay to go to the 2 after a winning 4. Something to consider. Or use the count to determine the length of the progression.

Right, an excellent suggestion!

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Just my 2 cents, I think that some players here dont like progressions, is kinda depress when losing on progressions that eat up the profit in front. 123 (-6) or 345 (-4 roughly) is not easy to recover, it need atlease another flat 4 winnings to breakeven. Things looks familiar in Forex Trading, all trading systems that using any kind of progression on lot size/target range, for recovery purpose , all end up in dustbin. That's why seller of trading robots and "what's next system" always making big money than trading itself.

If we use progression, i think NOR or MDB already work on that. I personally prefer to see a flat bet system on this netbet. Anyone prefer Flat here?

Frankly, i test it in some records from Bodog Live Baccarat, some end up crazy winning but some looks really ugly. still 50/50, depends on ur good luck to pick a shoe that favor our system.

Chill!

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While we all are anxiously awaiting updates...Are the tester rules (The 1 page that we got when we pre purchased) not valid anymore? What's the status on them?

I think a lot of us are confused by the many many systems and approaches...Am I right in understanding that NOR and MDB are still valid and useful and this 2Hi system is an attempt at simplifying things with a system that can be used almost everywhere?

777

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Hi 7779311, NOR and MDB are still valid and always will be

I believe a combination of those 2 approaches will beat anything.

If you add netbetting and some other tools then you have it all

The problem is NOR has 3 systems and 3 modes and requires table selection and system selection correctly to be successful

MDB is mechanical but also requires table selection to get best results and also maybe a little customisation for shoe at hand to get the best results

There's guys that have done and are doing real well on this forum with one or both of those 2 but the most successful players seem to bet not much more than 2 units it appears

Anyone who wants to put in the hard yards with the above its not a problem - the thing is not a lot of people are putting in the work it appears.

Ellis has put himself out on a limb here by creating a universal 2 HI system for guys that are new and don't want to learn table selection, system selection, and money management.

They can learn it quickly and play online or in casino and come out a winner straight away.

A system that will win more shoes than it loses, have a very tight win goal and stop loss, be pretty much mechanical, and have a max bet of 2 units!

Not an easy task!

He was also under pressure to release it quickly before it was tested properly.

way2fast put a version of 2HI he plays which I have been testing and it looks real logic and effective, we have the original rules here and now the new version so test them out and see if you can put in suggestions to make this thing get there and have faith in Ellis - he made MDB which has a 95% + hit rate so this thing will get there.

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