Million Dollar Webinar!

[Guest]

Please register for Million Dollar Webinar on Monday, April 21, 2014 7:30 PM - 9:00 PM EDT at:

https://student.gototraining.com/r/1062307810473894912

After registering you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the training.

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Citrix Online | 7414 Hollister Avenue | Goleta, CA 93117

NOR players can enter the discount code: NORPLAYER and it cost $150.00

Regards

Keith

[bluetri]

Point of clarification, will registration include access to the new Million Dollar forum and a future manual? And will it be recorded?

[trbfla]

Great question blue

[Stvcstll24]

Hi Ellis,

I can't find any info on this Webinar. What is it all about?

[Keith Smith]

Everyone who is a NOR player will get access to the Million Dollar Forum at a discount. It will not be a Q and A forum. - I am building it and will be open after the seminar so we can organize an FAQ first etc. No one is missing anything at the moment.

The Seminar will be online for NOR players on the 21st

Please register for Million Dollar Webinar on Monday, April 21, 2014 7:30 PM - 9:00 PM EDT at:

https://student.gototraining.com/r/1062307810473894912

If you are A NOR player use the discount code NORPLAYER. The Go to Meeting doesn't interface well with Constant Contact for online events so thats why the online meeting is not at the top. If you can't make VEgas this is the next best thing.

**********

We have one scheduled for Vegas on a weeknight Tuesday MAY 6th.

NOR players can use the discount code NORPLAYERS ( please note it is plural and will reduce to $249.95 Early Bird). We are having it at the Jockey CLub. If you can register early all the better, it helps with planning and the nut.

Needless to say if you can come to Vegas all the better I am thinking we should play a group bank and try the plan together with one player. I'll see what I can organize for that. Me and Ellis look to see you all there. Yes there will be an instruction video available but not one of the seminar so it is straight forward teaching.

Thnaks for your support.

Keith

Edited April 9, 2014 by Keith Smith

[modnar]

EDT stands for Eastern Time?

[Keith Smith]

Eastern Standard time

The registration for the webinar is going good thanks for your support.

[BaccDJ126]

Happy there's a Million Dollar Thread!! Happy all our hard work is paying off!!! BluTri is correct in asking what we will be learning also will we be able to get a copy of the meeting after we pay and will there be a manual?

[Quizzical1]

Ellis / Keith,

Will you be posting a syllabus on this webinar? I'd like to know what it will include....BaS40? BaOTB4L? etc.

Also, will it be available afterwards for purchase for those who cannot attend?

Glenn

[Keith Smith]

Hi

No I will make a training Video afterwards, I can never get a good webinar recording.

The basic rules will be in the NOR forum as they are now, but the million dollar forum will contain the training items and tweaks we produce. It will have a subscription fee. That's the easiest way rather than convoluted topics and threads we decided to do it contrary to what we decided earlier

Nothing will be in the Million Dollar forum until after the seminars.

The forum access will not be included in the seminar price but we are thinking to generate some cash flow for Ellis for his writing we are think 10 bucks a month.

Keith

Edited April 9, 2014 by Keith Smith

[ECD]

You need to give a sneak preview of what to expect. You can't say there. Calling it a "Million Dollar Webinar" is a pretty bold statement.

[Action Mike]

You need to give a sneak preview of what to expect. You can't say there. Calling it a "Million Dollar Webinar" is a pretty bold statement.

Based on the active threads here over the last 30 days, I don't think his statement is all that bold. I've been contributing and testing the system with my own money. I have at least one more Vegas trip this month, possibly two. Alas, this info came about a month too late for my $30,000 in 30 days goal, but by the end of summer, I fully intend on doing a full 1 Million Dollar run.

[Guest]

Based on the active threads here over the last 30 days, I don't think his statement is all that bold. I've been contributing and testing the system with my own money. I have at least one more Vegas trip this month, possibly two. Alas, this info came about a month too late for my $30,000 in 30 days goal, but by the end of summer, I fully intend on doing a full 1 Million Dollar run.

Well Mike it was your $30,000 thread and then somebody had the wisdom to post my old million dollar plan, that started this whole thing. And it's very timely. Just as our Vegas players have been hinting, +5 is a much more realistic goal with preshuffled cards. But it takes a special way of playing. It is our answer to Vegas going to 100% preshuffled cards. Sure, fixed cards SHOULD be illegal but that's not going to happen. So we must deal with what IS. Suddenly the old prog within a prog concept, which already averaged +5 for years, looks real good again. The only reason we ever abandoned it was because SAP was averaging +6. But both SAP and NOR are designed for normal cards. We need something specifically designed for preshuffled that can also handle regular cards. I think that 3 systems, all using the same prog within a prog concept, is the ideal solution to current Vegas conditions which are being copied everywhere all over the world.

So at the Webinar, I'll briefly discuss the two existing game types in Vegas explaining which is best for us and why.

I'll also go over what to look for on the tote boards.

Then how to play the 3 +5 systems.

Then the part that most here are having the most trouble with - How to apply the prog within a prog concept to all 3 systems, esp. OTB4L.

Finally, +5 cash management: When and how to start, when to quit, and how and when to capture.

And, of course Questions and Answers

The whole idea is to get the attendees prepared for the new +5 forum - a leg up, a preview.

These are tough conditions we face. But Norm did it. He paved the way for us.

Understanding when to raise your stakes is the easy part. I think everybody gets that. So I'll be concentrating on the hard part - how to consistently average +5. If you can do that simple task you can make a million dollars!

[gman72]

Hi

No I will make a training Video afterwards, I can never get a good webinar recording.

The basic rules will be in the NOR forum as they are now, but the million dollar forum will contain the training items and tweaks we produce. It will have a subscription fee. That's the easiest way rather than convoluted topics and threads we decided to do it contrary to what we decided earlier

Nothing will be in the Million Dollar forum until after the seminars.

The forum access will not be included in the seminar price but we are thinking to generate some cash flow for Ellis for his writing we are think 10 bucks a month.

Keith

FYI in case anyone is interested: I just unregistered for the webinar after reading the above.

I was ok with paying a small one time fee to watch the webinar, but after seeing there would be a recurring charge to get in on everything else, I'll save my hard earned money. Besides, after reading reviews on how the new 4D system seminar turned out, I'm thinking I made the right call.

I'm pretty discouraged that the thinking is to charge more for this +5 discussion. It appears to me to be just some adjustment to NOR concepts and has been a part of the NOR forum discussion we paid for. Not sure why it has to now be an additional cost. Call me a cheapskate if you will, but when I pay $600 for something that says I'll have access to the forum and all that's discussed there, and then to have concepts born out of and based on those discussion, go to a new forum that will cost more, well, that just doesn't sit well with me. I'm sure the cost could be recouped easily employing the new concepts, but that's not the point for me. Is it a lot of work and effort by others to provide the information, sure, but that's what you sold me already in my view.

Gman

[Wendel]

So, is NOR included for the $600 non-member price ?

[Quizzical1]

I've been holding my tongue for a while now, but I think it's time I spoke up.

I'm hesitant to sign up for this because I feel I got burnt on the 4D Seminar for $350. Sorry, but I really didn't learn much from that video - I already knew net betting - and the 4D was never followed through from the -6 hole that was dug to recovery, being said it would be worked out on the forum.

So to me, anyone who paid for that seminar should get a pass for this one since it definitely did not deliver.

[trbfla]

Keith

Are we going to get a manual with the webinar purchase?

How can we test to make sure we can even view the webinar ?

Thanks

Todd

[ECD]

When you invested $350.00 in what was described as the holy grail system of baccarat and it turned out not to be that holy grail....yeah, you need to be specific.

[LOU30]

I can only agree with you Quiz,I attended the first S40 M1/ 4D webinar and had studied 4D from Nov/Dec and I also bought the videos for the next 4D seminar and I was also felt let down by the last 4D seminar as I learnt nothing that was not covered in the first webinar,and I think of it as unfinished business.

And now we are moving on to the next big thing...

Its not the costs I understand the forum doesn't run it's self,I have bought every one of the webinars since I joined to me it just doesn't sit right!

I've been holding my tongue for a while now, but I think it's time I spoke up.

I'm hesitant to sign up for this because I feel I got burnt on the 4D Seminar for $350. Sorry, but I really didn't learn much from that video - I already knew net betting - and the 4D was never followed through from the -6 hole that was dug to recovery, being said it would be worked out on the forum.

So to me, anyone who paid for that seminar should get a pass for this one since it definitely did not deliver.

[Guest]

FYI in case anyone is interested: I just unregistered for the webinar after reading the above.

I was ok with paying a small one time fee to watch the webinar, but after seeing there would be a recurring charge to get in on everything else, I'll save my hard earned money. Besides, after reading reviews on how the new 4D system seminar turned out, I'm thinking I made the right call.

I'm pretty discouraged that the thinking is to charge more for this +5 discussion. It appears to me to be just some adjustment to NOR concepts and has been a part of the NOR forum discussion we paid for. Not sure why it has to now be an additional cost. Call me a cheapskate if you will, but when I pay $600 for something that says I'll have access to the forum and all that's discussed there, and then to have concepts born out of and based on those discussion, go to a new forum that will cost more, well, that just doesn't sit well with me. I'm sure the cost could be recouped easily employing the new concepts, but that's not the point for me. Is it a lot of work and effort by others to provide the information, sure, but that's what you sold me already in my view.

Gman

I wrote the reviews on the 4D seminar myself. I wrote the only bad reviews. The prerequisite to the 4D was to know NOR as well as Net Betting. I was going to teach from there. But somehow I ended up with a roomful of people that didn't even know what all those circles on the score card were or what an Opposite was, no idea of betting let alone Net Betting. These guys weren't even ready for NOR let alone the 4D. Some had been members for months and didn't even know there was a forum. I did the best I could with what I had to work with. Having conducted hundreds of seminars That NEVER happened before and I hope never again.

You do have access to the forum, the NOR forum as well as the 4D forum and several others. That is what you paid for. You do not have access to the BJ forum. That's a different game. But so is preshuffled Bac. It takes an entirely different approach. I have no control over casinos totally changing the game. But the new game is going in everwhere all over the world, even in PA where preshuffled cards were illegal just a few minths ago.

It may seem like just some adjustment to you but this is no minor detail. It is a huge change in the basic game. When I designed NOR, I had never even heard of preshuffled cards. NOR is not designed for this. Preshuffled cards should be illegal. But I have no control over that either. NOR will soon be totally obsolete. Bias based systems cannot beat preshuffled cards.

This isn't just going to take a Webinar. It demands a whole new concept, a whole new strategy based on Math rather than biases, a whole new forum, a whole new manual, devoted game postings, play by plays and answers to countless questions. We are talking hundreds of focused man hours to give this project justice. The key requirement is that when everything is said and done you need to be equipped to go out and actually play it successfully yourself. I told you guys yesterday and Keith this morning, I'm simply not going to do this for free. I've been working for free too long. I have charged $3000 for far lesser manuals that sold by the hundreds. This needs to be the best Baccarat manual ever written and the best instruction ever delivered. Our Macau students are paying $7000 for a two day seminar.

Maybe Keith's solution isn't the best. It was just a knee jerk reaction to my comment this morning. Maybe you guys have some ideas. I don't like this double payment thing either. How about this.? Why don't we make the Webinar a prerequisite for getting on the +5 forum??? No other charges. At least then forum members would have a basic understanding of what we are talking about.

[Sarrom]

Ellis - I'm on board for making the seminar the prereq.

Your mentorship alone has been far more valuable than any of the costs associated with joining the forum, other webinars etc...

[Quizzical1]

I wrote the reviews on the 4D seminar myself. I wrote the only bad reviews. The prerequisite to the 4D was to know NOR as well as Net Betting. I was going to teach from there. But somehow I ended up with a roomful of people that didn't even know what all those circles on the score card were or what an Opposite was, no idea of betting let alone Net Betting. These guys weren't even ready for NOR let alone the 4D. Some had been members for months and didn't even know there was a forum. I did the best I could with what I had to work with. Having conducted hundreds of seminars That NEVER happened before and I hope never again.

You do have access to the forum, the NOR forum as well as the 4D forum and several others. That is what you paid for. You do not have access to the BJ forum. That's a different game. But so is preshuffled Bac. It takes an entirely different approach. I have no control over casinos totally changing the game. But the new game is going in everwhere all over the world, even in PA where preshuffled cards were illegal just a few minths ago.

It may seem like just some adjustment to you but this is no minor detail. It is a huge change in the basic game. When I designed NOR, I had never even heard of preshuffled cards. NOR is not designed for this. Preshuffled cards should be illegal. But I have no control over that either. NOR will soon be totally obsolete. Bias based systems cannot beat preshuffled cards.

This isn't just going to take a Webinar. It demands a whole new concept, a whole new strategy based on Math rather than biases, a whole new forum, a whole new manual, devoted game postings, play by plays and answers to countless questions. We are talking hundreds of focused man hours to give this project justice. The key requirement is that when everything is said and done you need to be equipped to go out and actually play it successfully yourself. I told you guys yesterday and Keith this morning, I'm simply not going to do this for free. I've been working for free too long. I have charged $3000 for far lesser manuals that sold by the hundreds. This needs to be the best Baccarat manual ever written and the best instruction ever delivered. Our Macau students are paying $7000 for a two day seminar.

Maybe Keith's solution isn't the best. It was just a knee jerk reaction to my comment this morning. Maybe you guys have some ideas. I don't like this double payment thing either. How about this.? Why don't we make the Webinar a prerequisite for getting on the +5 forum??? No other charges. At least then forum members would have a basic understanding of what we are talking about.

I get that Ellis, my issue is that knowing this was a problem the seminar should never have been put up for sale at all since it offered virtually NO 4D content at all.

Again, NOT blaming you - you worked with what you had at hand. I blame whoever thought putting this up for sale for $350 was worth it.

[gman72]

I don't want to start an argument, this is Ellis’ world, I'm just a visitor in it. I paid for NOR, I've won Baccarat playing NOR, more than enough to cover the cost. I posted about it last year. I believe in NOR.

But...my opinion, and it's just that, an opinion, is that +5 is not a new system, it is mostly just an adjustment to NOR betting, with a few tweaks about modes and betting ATR or OTR. That's it. It follows the same three systems S40, OTB4L, F(SS/S40M1) as NOR. You are just changing the betting progression and calling it BaS40, etc.... I get that you don't agree, but I'm guessing that most NOR members on here following the +5 discussion would agree with most of what I've stated.

And as far as I'm concerned, preshuffled cards are nothing that hasn't been talked about on the NOR forums by you extensively and how to play NOR against them with smaller win expectations than against regular cards.

Your statement below about NOR soon being obsolete is not very encouraging, especially since I've been a NOR member for less than a year. I really feel sorry for anyone thinking about purchasing NOR. Wouldn't that be something. Pay for what you think will be a successful approach to Baccarat and then find out its creator thinks it will be obsolete soon. Ouch! Maybe they'll get started soon enough to win their cost back like me.

None of what I said should take away from the great instruction and discussion I get in the forum currently. I think it's great.

What I've said, in this post and the last one I posted, are just my small gripes with the idea of charging current NOR members for the +5. I'm happy to pay for a webinar for additional instruction on the +5, just not happy to pay more to get access to something that I feel I've already paid for. I’ll see how things play out in the next week or so on this and then make a decision.

[gman72]

Why don't we make the Webinar a prerequisite for getting on the +5 forum??? No other charges. At least then forum members would have a basic understanding of what we are talking about.

I would think this is a perfectly good solution. Assuming that as part of getting that access to the forum you would also get the manual when finished and all the discussion going forward in the forum. Again though, this original webinar full cost would be discounted for current NOR members.

Then anyone wanting access later to the +5 could pay full price (whatever you decide that is) with a discount for any current NOR members. With that payment they would have to watch either a recording of the original webinar or an updated video overview before they could get access to the forum.

(Please consider making the discounted fee for current NOR members nominal) What do you think?

[CdnChamer]

Hi

No I will make a training Video afterwards, I can never get a good webinar recording.

The basic rules will be in the NOR forum as they are now, but the million dollar forum will contain the training items and tweaks we produce. It will have a subscription fee. That's the easiest way rather than convoluted topics and threads we decided to do it contrary to what we decided earlier

Nothing will be in the Million Dollar forum until after the seminars.

The forum access will not be included in the seminar price but we are thinking to generate some cash flow for Ellis for his writing we are think 10 bucks a month.

Keith

Excuuuuuuuuzzzze MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! $10/month forum fee? Gee Keith, you may want to consider shutting the forum down very very soon if you even think that this would work... GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE! This is worse than your natural 8 & 9 analysis crap recently posted.

You better be thinking twice before you decide to charge for the forum,

WHY?

1) Ellis's will run out of ideas resulting that you will lose valuable contributing members not interested to pay......

Where do think Ellis gets his ideas from? It's not all Ellis..... FACT: Ellis was holding out for our poor friend Oz back in January for the perfect 100 shoe win. FIASCO!

FACT: Ellis gets his ideas from members like myself and then markets them to collect $$$$ and takes credit as his own..... CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

FACT: Ellis's 4D omarketing campaign and knowledge turned out to be a "FLOP". .... See attendees comments in previous postings.

HECK, I know the 4D system in far greater detail of understanding than Ellis does.... But hey, some people (members of forum) are followers and yet some are leaders or designers. I think you all know where you fit in. As for me, I'm an innovated thinker designer of systems.

FACT: Ellis and Keith's credibility was lost in the marketing of the 4D and video seminar.... Why should anyone in their right mind consider to pay forward at such recent reputation failure?......

.."............... Maybe some people have more money than brains....? If you don't know who you are..... Others will when they see your face as an attendee at the upcoming seminar video for others willing to waste money on yet another seminar video... But wait! Keith has claimed that he intends to make a "Training Video" to save face... So to speak. You are saved! Lol. My mistake!

FACT: "ALL NOR PAID MEMBERS ARE GRANTED COMPLETE ACCESS TO PRIVATE FORUM CONTENT AS PER $600 ONE TIME FEE......PERIOD".

FACT: ...... I'm sorry to have bring this up again, but hey, Keith just opened up the opportunity again....... In 2006 Ellis granted me an "Honorary Lifetime Membership to all Private content of BTC" as I was a system tester with real money on behalf of Ellis's current system development at the time...... Yet..... After 2 years, I came back to the forum and found that he had designed the NOR System... Of which I had (not knowingly at the time) "Grandfathered status" to get it for no cost, Including; "Honorary lifetime access to private forum".....

ELLIS STILL MADE ME FORK OVER $600 for NOR. In hindsight... A mistake of injustice as been made.

This not first time I have spoken openly about this... Yet Ellis has never responded to this or offered me a refund.

FACT: Ellis's so called invention of OTB4L came from me in spring 2006., yes you read that right.... "CC GAVE ELLIS THE RECOGNIZED VISUAL GRASP OF OTB4L OBSERVATION IN SPRING 2006". Ellis repeated back me over the phone... 3 X's. The words "opposite time before last" after I told him about what I saw and how I was playing to achieve an edge over the casino at Baccarat.

Did I ever get credit for that? "NO"

Did I ever receive any form of royalty for OTB4L? "NO"

DO YOU YOU EVER THINK THAT ANY OTHER MEMBER THAT ELLIS USES THEIR IDEA FOR HIM TO MAKE MONEY ON... WOULD EVER GET A PEICE OF THE PIE OF ANY REVENUE FROM THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS? "NO"

.... THIS IS WHY I HAVE RECENTLY KEPT MY CLOSEST SECRETS TO MYSELF

IF ELLIS KNEW WHAT HAVE NOW.... "He would pee his pants at a moments notice as it is the perfect ingredient for the MILLION DOLLAR PLAN +5 unit system"

I AM NOT GOING TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE. MY LIPS ARE SEALED.

FACT: players and "contributing members" on this forum are considered and respected as good to great baccarat players of the world.

I didn't say all members, I said contributing, yet I as a contributing member and others feel used.

NOW.... IF THERE ARE TO BE CHANGES IN THE MANAGING OF FEES AND ACCESS OF THE FORUM.... BE WARNED, BE VERY WARNED...

LOSS OF REPUTATION, LOSS OF REVENUE FOR SYSTEMS SOLD CURRENTLY, LOSS OF MEMBERS, AND....... POTENTIAL LAWSUIT BY CURRENT MEMBERS AND OTHERS TO FOLLOW.

YOU MAY NOT BE AS SMART AS ELLIS, BUT PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HOPE FOR A NATURAL TO SHOW UP TO SAVE YOUR BACON.

DONT MAKE ANOTHER MISTAKE OF INJUSTICE.

CC

.